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1.50$ 45 Man Push as Chipleader? 1.50$ 45 Man Push as Chipleader?

12-15-2011 , 12:41 PM
    Poker Stars, $1.36 Buy-in (600/1,200 blinds, 75 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 5 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #11315382

    BTN: 12,057 (10 bb)
    SB: 13,257 (11 bb)
    BB: 6,171 (5.1 bb)
    Hero (MP): 22,981 (19.2 bb)
    CO: 13,034 (10.9 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is MP with K 8
    Hero raises to 22,906 and is all-in



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    All players were playing pretty tight and had regish stats even though its a 1.50$ buy in. I dont expect fency calls. Nash says i can shove K5s. But i dont expect players to call as tight as nash says. What is K8s here? Do you think i can shove this? I wasnt to aggro so far only pushing good spots. Is this one? Close? Def fold?

    What do you think abou the call from the player on the button? Good call? Close?

    Last edited by TeamTrousers; 12-15-2011 at 09:14 PM. Reason: Please don't post results. Thanks
    12-16-2011 , 03:21 AM
    K8s is a slightly wide range.
    I don't think they are that tight. But pushing K8s cannot be a very big mistake though ever, especially if your image was tight so far.

    Buttons call was very bad. (I did see it in your post yesterday.)

    I would push K8s myself if I know they call with stuff like 99+, AQ/AK only and the BB is tight. Usually not pushing less than KTs though.

    It depends on your style too and how you manage controlling them with your chip lead.
    12-16-2011 , 05:51 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by musaire
    K8s is a slightly wide range.
    I don't think they are that tight. But pushing K8s cannot be a very big mistake though ever, especially if your image was tight so far.

    Buttons call was very bad. (I did see it in your post yesterday.)

    I would push K8s myself if I know they call with stuff like 99+, AQ/AK only and the BB is tight. Usually not pushing less than KTs though.

    It depends on your style too and how you manage controlling them with your chip lead.
    I have a question. With what range should button call ?
    12-16-2011 , 06:55 AM
    Button has a 46% ROI after 6k SNGS. Its only a very small buy in but this is a very good winrate anyway i think. Why do people who dont care about ICM always have very good winrates? I feel like this whole ICM idea is nonsense.

    I think regarding ICM he should call with JJ+
    If you want to make good profit though just call with like 10% of hands.
    12-16-2011 , 11:22 AM
    Have you filtered for 45man Sngs? I cant believe that he has 46% over 6k Sample there.
    12-16-2011 , 12:13 PM
    Pretty big ICM factor for you and blinds not that high. I would not push this UTG. You should have late position stealing spots.
    12-16-2011 , 12:20 PM
    minraise?
    12-16-2011 , 01:26 PM
    too marginal spot you can get walk next hand and steal so much from better positions even without hands from sb/btn...
    12-16-2011 , 06:37 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Luchaz
    I have a question. With what range should button call ?
    Generally big pairs only. JJ+, or even QQ+ if button thinks UTG is tight. Any non-pairs would be gambling.
    Maybe AKs and TT in some extreme case where UTG is a maniac pushing at least 40-50%.




    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mckrogh
    minraise?
    Not the worst option I think, especially if you're respected and known for minraising monsters only. Works in a tight table in some extent.
    Not sure they would fold hands like AT, 77 or worse to that in $1.50 game though, so I wouldn't use it much. You can get pushed over too often.
    Would work if the bigger stacks would fold as much or more to your minraise than they would fold to your push.

    Generally K8s is a fold.
    Hard to find a table that tight.

    Last edited by musaire; 12-16-2011 at 07:01 PM.
    12-17-2011 , 06:03 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by musaire
    Not the worst option I think, especially if you're respected and known for minraising monsters only.
    Cool, then it will work for sure for me.
    12-17-2011 , 07:04 AM
    Couldn't you have accomplished the same thing with a raise to 3k preflop? Its not like the table has a lot of options with each lap crippling stacks.

    A8+ starting to look good here, and your in worse shape against A 9+.

    K8 if your down to 3 or 4 maybe.

    If anyone has the luxury of being a little selective its you. You are behind A x, any pp, K9+. You could have shoved air and had as many live cards. At least if you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar you gain some respect for playing your stack.

    Do you Really want to race with K 8s when your so close to going 3 handed?

    Fold here.
    12-17-2011 , 10:14 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by grenzen
    At least if you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar you gain some respect for playing your stack.
    This needs more
    12-17-2011 , 02:53 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cpt.Hero
    Have you filtered for 45man Sngs? I cant believe that he has 46% over 6k Sample there.
    +1 What is his name?
    12-17-2011 , 04:24 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mckrogh
    This needs more
    OK here's some love.

    Enjoy the moment: fold please.
    12-17-2011 , 07:18 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by grenzen
    Couldn't you have accomplished the same thing with a raise to 3k preflop? Its not like the table has a lot of options with each lap crippling stacks.

    A8+ starting to look good here, and your in worse shape against A 9+.

    K8 if your down to 3 or 4 maybe.

    If anyone has the luxury of being a little selective its you. You are behind A x, any pp, K9+. You could have shoved air and had as many live cards. At least if you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar you gain some respect for playing your stack.

    Do you Really want to race with K 8s when your so close to going 3 handed?

    Fold here.
    K8 is a pure steal Hand. We shove because we have foldequity. We simply gain equity in the long run against the right opponents. At this Limit our foldequity is probably bad and we should steal less, so i would probably fold it.
    But your thought process is wrong in my opinion. We should play more hands with a Bigstack and not be more selective.
    12-17-2011 , 10:02 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cpt.Hero
    K8 is a pure steal Hand. We shove because we have foldequity. We simply gain equity in the long run against the right opponents. At this Limit our foldequity is probably bad and we should steal less, so i would probably fold it.
    But your thought process is wrong in my opinion. We should play more hands with a Bigstack and not be more selective.
    This stack is 2 races from elimination. My point is that KING 8 suited is not much better then a pure steal. Perhaps even worse since the king is so outkicked. It's a Terrible combo hand catching straights also. At least King 9s here.

    I like it 4 handed for sure. Not 5.

    Final tables decisions are an accumulation of ones experiences. I don't think there's any one rule fits all. If the table is tight and 2 of them seem to be trying to fold up the ladder then sure OK. King 8 looks fine.
    12-18-2011 , 09:28 AM
    But you have to be careful not to think results oriented. For example if you get called often in one session and then decide to steal less because of bad past experiences.
    12-18-2011 , 05:02 PM
    Its not easy changing and learning.

    How you have been running lately also affects decisions.

    I kind of liked the extra utility of the chip lead at this particular point versus risking a steal. Sort of like letting everyone else sit there and sweat themselves besides me. At least an orbit unless I hook a hand worth shoving.

    Ya thanks for your explanations also. Appreciate.
    12-22-2011 , 07:25 PM
    lol u dont believe someone has a 45% roi in 1.50 45s??
    im not saying its def the case for the guy in the hand due to wrong filters or whatever but 45% is easy believable
    12-28-2011 , 07:46 AM
    Clay whats your opinion about the shove?
    12-28-2011 , 08:48 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by OMGClayDol
    lol u dont believe someone has a 45% roi in 1.50 45s??
    im not saying its def the case for the guy in the hand due to wrong filters or whatever but 45% is easy believable
    Seeing is believing.
    12-28-2011 , 11:08 AM
    Fold, no minraise

          
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