I told you guys last month, it was their plan for be last 9 months to bring the site to a grinding halt and then take off with all player funds claiming bankruptcy etc

Shane please give to us official situation report of lock cashouts and financial situation, are you now broke? how much player money is left?

Think for just 2 minutes on why those people sell in the first place. Do you think maybe they would like to turn their Lock funds into real money? Oh right that's what's supposed to happen when you cash out. So if you bought up 10k Lock funds that's 10k less that's being cashed out by other people and 10k more that you're buying. It's still the exact same amount of cashouts. If affiliates actually were getting priority (no proof of this at all btw and I've talked to at least one largish affiliate who said their cashouts were taking several months), the solution is simply to take away the priority. Boom problem solved. They could still let these affiliates cash out without playing and the market would be fine.

But yeah this is actually way different from OP's case, he didn't do any of this at all and should be paid asap.

- Shane

This is so silly. This "panic" you are referring to is created BY LOCK when you don't process a cashout for 10 weeks. That's plain and simply the only reason. If cashouts were quick and easy NO ONE would ever even consider selling for less 100% of what it's worth.

Lol. Nobody is manipulating the market. Shane is failing so hard right now.

Lock price is determined by factors such as:

-- Lock segregating players

-- Fair Play Tech

-- 3-5 month cashouts

-- Several skins publicly announcing that the network is 5 months behind in reconciliation payments.

People have been saying the sky is falling at Lock for years, and the price never moved until these other issues arised. Anyone who thinks you can lower the price of Lock by bidding under market value is clueless.

In fact, if there's a bunch of speculators offering .50, they are creating price support and establishing a floor. If you get rid of them, the price can easily fall under .50.

It doesn't matter how small the market is. The market for Intertops funds is smaller than the Lock market, but if you go try and claim the sky is falling and place a huge bid for Inter at .70, you won't move the market one cent, you will simply be laughed at.

Apparently it is some affiliates and pros, not all affiliate and pros.

I too, know large affiliates and pros that have to wait like everyone else.

In any case, the larger issue is that this doesn't even matter in the way that Shane says, like others point out, the problems are to do with Lock and the story being told here unsurprisingly stinks.

Quick update:

Still nothing from lock support/security. Emailed a couple times now.

Juggernaut, best of luck getting your money off Lock. Keep their feet to the flame, don't let them off easy.

Yes also Day 3 or 4 of no response,
Not even a sending of the T.O.S,
Shane also informed me that he would speak with someone in security to try to answer my emails but no word yet, and that isn't an indictment of Shane, in this case he was trying to help out, so I appreciate it.

Can't understand how this silence tho leads us to a resolution, or that some type of statement explaining what exactly is being done to fix this issue between the time these withdrawals were cancelled, too today, which is almost 5-6 days later.

Certainly does seem panicky if there was no plan for follow through.

Its just getting increasingly scarier as I know despite the ****ty rap Shane has gotten in this forum, that, in this instance, he's been asked to take a back seat to security. Couple that with the contradictory things are being said about withdrawal times and the lack of ability to keep promises about certain changes (cashier, software, and otherwise)

That it almost worries me that something bigger is happening but, ultimately I do understand speculation will run increasingly rampant in a situation where clear answers aren't really given.

so what is happening? are they keeping peoples funds and locking accounts? just cancelling people withdrawals? what do they want people to do with the money if they cant withdrawal?

My account and funds are both fine.
I'm not worried about my account being locked as I didn't do anything wrong.
The email everyone got simply explained that cash outs on transfers weren't allowed.
Much of the stuff elaborated on in this thread deals specifically with Juggernauts circumstance.

I'm more so concerned about the lack of certainty in general, and this is of course is another reflection of things that cause people to lose confidence.

it became clear, quite quickly, it was not justs op's problem. jesus.

Did it? Couldn't tell.

eh, i mistook your point of view. no worries.

site signs up grinders with good rakeback deal
site has extended cashout times for players,
site put huge playthrough requirements on account 2 account transfers,
site restricts the number of tables that winning players can play to protect the fish,
site rep keeps claiming all is good and players shouldn't worry
site withdraws from US market
site puts unrealistic conditions on US players to prevent them withdrawing funds after barring access
site and rep disappear.


This was minted poker , but the correlation with what has happened at lock/revolution and what minted/everleaf did should give people cause for concern besides the obvious cancelling of all major cashouts for ROW players. Lock may be at a different stage of the process and how they are implementing the different stages may be different.Shane has hinted in some of his early explanations in this thread that they are now looking at reviewing the playthrough requirements on accounts to account transfers.

I kinda thought that the seemed to be something shady going on with the market. The doesn't excuse any of the problems Lock has been creating for itself, but the fact that Lock has been having problem doesn't mean that other shady things weren't/aren't going on.
In fact, it seems a likely scenario that both could be feeding the other. Let's just say there are 10 people trying to sell lock funds at or around .80.. the situation is getting desperate for some people that depend on that money (hence why there are even selling it at all as opposed to waiting 50-55 days) now let's just say that 5 new players got together and traded and sold money back and forth to each other for less money then .80, this would drive the price down for the original ten players would it not?
It really wouldn't be too hard to pull off. I mean Lock payouts are slow.. If you had means to get faster payout then everyone else, and the market was over saturated with people selling then.. it wouldn't be too hard to drive prices down.
Now the person in question OP is somehow tied to a ring of people they discovered that were trying to circumvent the normal system and market with a coordinated effort to both drive the prices down, buy up funds, and spread them around and take off masses of money. Well it does seems like the could certainly gum up the system for everyone.
I think that we cancelled your payout, this decision is final isn't exactly the right course of action either. Even if this person was or wasn't tied into this ring directly. I think some sort of.. you need to do X before you can withdraw X would make more sense. Or we ban you from transactions for X amount of time, or transfer are block for X amount of time. An indefinite sorry you broke the rules, you can't withdraw anymore, ever is kinda weird way to approach situation. Hard to tell based of the info that was laid out whether or not this person is part of ring or any shadiness described.

Anyone wearing a lock patch at the wsop needs to be publically held accountable for supporting a poker site that clearly does not segregate player funds.

Some major problems with what you're saying.

1) You're being theoretical, not giving any evidence.

2) Even if 5 guys pretend to be selling at .60 instead of .80, as soon as anyone tries to buy or sell with these guys at .60, it won't be available. What you experience is more important than what some people say on the forum (in this case).

3) People don't trade purely based on public reports, they trade based on asking anyone that says "Will take Lock for wire." You ask the guy what he is selling for, and you take the best price from a reliable person. That best price is not based off of a few people making some noise but not actually trading with anyone.

4) The price can be followed back pretty easily if you pay attention. The price was fairly reasonable for awhile, but as soon as cashouts for ROW players in addition to USA players started rising, the price steadily moved up.

5) Ask yourself, would a thread like this or a few guys telling others they sold Lock cheaper than they did change the market? Put out your best guess, I'm going with threads like this 100% of the time.

6) It's almost certain that most people with a lot of transfers are simply buying because it's cheap enough, and they want to wait the time period to cash it out and get 100% of funds that they bought at < 100%. On the other end, people selling mass amounts just want to be cashed out.

The market manipulation makes little sense based on the evidence of the prices of the market. If someone wants to graph public cashout times of Lock and compare that to an underlying graph of market price, I think you would see a pattern emerge. There's enough info in the threads here to do so. I'll put in $50 to anyone that takes the time to do it and PMs it to me. It would be a good service to the community.

This change in policy without due notice is bad, but it will also hurt the site long term (in my opinion).

Right now, you have a group of players willing to take some Lock money at a discount in order to wait for the long cashout time frames. They are speculating with the potential reward for profit.

You have another group of people that would never wait the 3-6 months it is taking to cashout for many players around the world. They will pay a price to cashout faster, so they send transfers to the speculators. If they cannot do this, they will be much more likely to take their business to another site.

The speculators are providing a service to Lock, by and large. They are allowing the site with terrible cashout service to accommodate a larger group of players than it would without the ability to transfer to another player to cashout.

Now, if the issue is that some pros and affiliates have a special fast cashout method, then why not just restrict those pros and affiliates from transferring or simply remove their priority cashouts?

From talking with people it is obvious that not nearly all pros and affiliates have this ability either.

If this policy only extends to those that were doing business specifically with people that had priority cashouts, then saying that right away would be a huge step in the right direction. However, from Shane's comments, this seemed more about making up a reason to fit a policy (and the reason being heavily flawed) or a very poorly thought out and executed change in policy that is not a great sign for a site that wants to be around and thriving this time next year.

Nope, and sadly I'll explain why.

Let's assume that Lock had maybe 30% of total player deposits accessible atm (sadly that's probably extremely generous)

Now in a normal healthy environment where people are playing, this shortfall DOESN'T MATTER for Lock's operations. (It's morally wrong and hopefully sites in the future will be required to keep 100% of balances in a trust, but that doesn't do people that have money stuck on here any good)

As long as they can invest in marketing and with their affiliates, their goal is to at least keep something close to a balance between new money coming in and withdrawals. They have the advantage of tons of rake to try and reach this equilibrium. They clearly still sucked, and as such were delaying cashouts to try and preserve their ecosystem and liquidity. Obviously delayed cashouts is a travesty and is just wrong, but in a situation like this, they probably saw it as the lesser evil, since the alternative is that they run out of money and everyone gets $0, and the hope is that they can grow into being able to pay out their liabilities (cash balances) eventually.

As we saw with FTP, this can go on forever really, as long as their is no big shock to the system, nothing to upset the balance. However, what most likely has been happening is that affiliates buying up funds and withdrawing has in fact upset the balance, and it's been growing with an inverse relationship to Lock's dwindling cash balances to the point where Lock finally was like WTF?? and looked into why they were running out of cash.

But, at the same time what they either didn't realize or ignored was that perception becomes reality, especially in the case of a bank run, and so as the spot rate for lock funds trade lower, people's confidence in the site decreases, and the relationship between deposits to withdrawals gets worse, further weakening Lock's financial position.

If they're reading this, then they need some catalyst to instill confidence that they actually have the means to pay people's withdrawals (even if they don't).

--

One other thing with the "market" for online funds, people referencing "insider trading" and whatnot don't really understand what it means, but in addition, by it's nature the price is ALWAYS going to be artificially low. You have a situation with a ton of natural sellers (everyone who plays on LockPoker) and the people that are most likely to want to buy (people who play LockPoker) are already long, probably more then they want since they can't withdraw. It was a similar situation with FTP, the question is what is the liquidity premium worth to you.

Another day, another joke...

I sent another email two days ago, long, detailing my account... I am no affiliate or anything like that, and my email simply asked questions as to what am I supposed to do, and what incoming transfers are in question. The questions and the type of email shane asked everyone to send. At least this time my response wasn't a generic email, but after I sent a 6 paragraph email, describing my situation, and looking for help, I definately don't expect a response like this..

"Hello,

Thank you for your reply, we understand your issue however please note we do not allow payouts derived from player transfers."


Honestly, this is so lol...

Well, the price of Lock just dropped to 0.

Now Lock owned accounts will buy up all the funds on the cheap.

Where are people who play on Lock that are planning to leave planning on going? I used to play at Carbon but don't like the cashout times. Have heard WPN has good cashouts but their software and traffic isn't great.

I only have $500 on Lock so I'm not too worried, but I really would like to play somewhere I can feel confident I'm going to get paid.

I don't know how people can still play at Lock though. If I had looked online 4 days ago I would have stopped playing then.

Just when I thought lock couldn't get any worse.