That's a really bad analogy if you consider the fact it'll take so much TIME to get it all off, furthermore, if things remain as it is, even if he DOES have confidence the funds are safe, but doesn't see the cashout times improving soon, he could see reason enough to sell it off. After all, if you don't sell off, you're putting yourself in this infinite loop of having too much funds on Lock which u can't get off, which has nothing to do with thinking it's safe or not, you simply can't get it off in time and as you keep playing you keep earning more $ which in turn you again can't get off so there's no point sticking with it even if u do think it's safe.

Hope people understand this logic -_- but yeah, it's obviously a bad message and there's going to be very little people who do think it through.

I understand the logic.. But if you think that earning 30c on every $1 at Lock Poker would yield yourself a greater winrate at any other poker room effectively trading at 1:1 you must be crazy :S

That's unless you have an obscene amount of money that it would probably take you about 4-5 years to withdraw all your funds (if they were to somehow continue)

As I craft some responses to posters I missed this early AM, I find that at roughly the same time as HokieGreg's post in the P2P trade, another Lock pro hit up the HSNL thread with this:

JSH06 is Lock Elite pro Jared Hubbard.

Now, as I'll state in a reply to another poster, the fact that it's in the HSNL thread to me makes it less of an issue (hardly any values are reported there, and I'm sure there's some vig action outside of what we on the P2P thread would consider normal). However, the fact that two pretty well known Lock pros are moving $35k at the same .33 vig suggests there's more here than meets the eye.

Trying to keep a level head about this, but...you can't blame people for assuming something fishy is going on.

it is more than a little fishy.

one interesting thing is that they have essentially capped the market at .33, and set the market at something much lower. once the selling of lock pro's funds becomes more public, i wouldn't be surprised to see funds selling at .2 or lower.

so theory #1 (much more reasonable than theory #2) is that they got some inside info, and decided they will get out while they can, without realizing that they are actually killing the market they are trying to sell to.

theory #2 is that they got a message from lock, to sell off there money. this action caps the market, lowers the value tremendously, everyone panics and sells off their balances for ~.2 lock buys it up and they can begin to balance their books a little.

Why do I get the feeling that even the people who have money on the site are just looking for anything they can to say, "SEE I TOLD YOU SO"... Do you guys all know this lock pros financial status? And I mean life financial status? My guess is probably not.. People need money at various times for various times reasons... why are we to question what he does or does not need? Who is to say he doesnt have bills due in 1-2 weeks that he desperately needs 2-3k for? Anyone in this situation that knows their funds will take MINIMUM 3-4 weeks (as shown by a prev lock pro getting cashout in 1 month). Sure he may, or may not have confidence in lock, but jesus people, get off this witch hunt... does this look good? Absolutely not.. but before rushing to conclusions, think a little bit!

If Lock funds became untradeable via P2P transfer, the only way to get funds on the skin is via deposit. Again, it all goes to awareness. If the supposed "casual player" is really keeping Lock afloat, they better steer clear of any reputable internet sites regarding online poker. Because as I have been told by the man himself...



Perhaps posting that in the HSNL thread is fair. But in the P2P thread, where reported value trades are in a daily report and the vig of those trades are publicized and well known now, it only serves one identifiable purpose: the further devaluing of Lock's skin value.

This is one of the big things here. The ol' "deposit and play!" routine while selling off funds at a third of their value. This is why I can't have too much sympathy for these pros. How they have been able to continue to perpetuate and mislead people without having either a clue or wanting one about what's going on daily with this company is beyond me. At some point, common sense says go find a new game. But with some Lock pros, that doesn't seem to be the case.

I don't doubt this. Public opinion is just going to ruin this company. And it's not like you can blame the public (though Lock has tried that before) when they continually offer up new, more diculous foibles from week to week.

McC - these guys represent the company as Lock pros. They actively seem to be among the cavalry to get players to deposit on the skin. You don't go to a P2P thread where you know VIG is being recorded and mapped daily and ceremoniously undercut the current value by 16% - especially when you have a rep publicly stating that the vig report is a reflection of consumer confidence in your cashout system. At best this is simply gross negligence under a company that has no control over anyone associated or employed with them. At worst it's a coordinated effort to drive vig down so low that players will have no option but to go through Lock's payment system to deposit or withdraw, without ever having to shut down the P2P option themselves. This isn't a "bad message" - it's horrible business practices and it's just plain wrong.

If this was in any way strategic by this company, or if these guys had some kind of insider information...either way, it's only going to end badly for Lock. How could they not see that?

excuse my question, since you are probably much smarter regarding this stuff than i am, but i'm just not seeing your logic.

if this was a coordinated effort to drive down the vig in the marketplace, any knowledgable buyers would NEVER pay 1:1 to deposit. furthermore, lock wouldn't want buy back assets at 1:1 that they know are valued way below that.

so it seems to me that this strategy would be suicide unless they were planning on buying up all the 'toxic' lock assets to balance their books. or am i missing something obvious here?

after writing that, it seems really unreasonable and super risky that lock would actually try to do that. but it's fun to think about ridiculous scenarios like this one. on second thought, i wouldn't put it past them.

haha awesome thread

Nutz/Lock = Frost/Nixon

though thinking the pros are doing that in a "coordinated effort" to achieve whatsoever goes to far imo.
they are just trying to get their $$$ like many others and obviously they see no other way than sellling in at this poor rate, again like many others.

I respect many of the posters in this thread, and on this forum in general, but some of this is just lol rediclous...

Everyone wearing tin foil hats on this forum imo...

PEOPLE NEED MONEY SOMETIMES AND DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET IT... Being that he is a "Lock Pro" doesn't exempt him from needing personal funds sometimes for life expenses... cmon people...

Posting negative stuff, just for the sake of posting to try and cause even more hysteria than there already is so counterproductive its disgusting...

/rant

If they came in at "I have 35k lock at .26/$1" or something, then maybe there is SOME cause for concern, or maybe a few eyebrows should be raised... But they are simply coming in at where maybe not ALL, but a decent chunk of the market is coming in at...

i'm sorry, i should have made a disclaimer that i think there is about a .1% chance that this is feasible. it's fun to think/talk about conspiracies. i understand that it's probably not the most productive conversation to have in this circumstance. your point is much more likely.

assuming you are right about what is happening, i'm super surprised that lock doesn't have anything in their player contracts saying that pros can't sell lock assets under face value on a public forum.

seems like it would just be terrible for PR and business in general. i'm not a lawyer but that would definitely be a clause i put in a contract.

Just want to add 2 pieces of clarification.

#1. This isn't a case of a player selling all of their funds, its about them selling off part of their roll for some instant cash.

#2. We have said all along that the pro's are under the same cashout conditions as regular players. This means that just like everyone else pro's occasionally sell of parts of their roll to get faster access to funds.

disagree. they would never come in at anything lower. i assume that these guys must have higher than average intelligence, so why would they come in under the market value for their assets. it just wouldn't make sense.

maybe they just need to pay their rent. but by posting such a large chunk of change in marketplace (compared to normal transactions), it definitely will and did raise eyebrows.

lastly, these guys might know nothing about what is going on internally at lock. regardless, the perception will be that something is wrong, and at the very least validate the customer concerns regarding the value of lock assets.

Shane .33 on the dollar..... Are you serious you don't see a major major major problem here? Wake the F up.

I agree with you that some comments on this forum are completely wrong, rabble-rousing or redundant.

But giving many posters in this thread respect just to call all of this forum's users tin foil hatted in your next sentence, makes your statement a bit contradictory.

I also agree that causing hysteria does hardly ever help, but this thread's topic definitely has it's eligibility imo.

#2 is a great point for everyone reading far too much into things... everyone was in an outrage when one pro a few weeks ago got a cashout via skrill in 3-4 weeks, but now everyone is in an outrage when a lock pro is selling outta necessity... Selling outta necessity = pros not skipping and getting bumped in the que, otherwise these pros wouldnt need to be selling at .33

Some of you posters only try to have it one way, and that way is whatever way suits your arguements better

Alright everyone, go ahead and start calling me a shill

smh

FYP

Greg clearly needed to get his hands on some cash immediately, if he posted that he had $10K to sell at .5 on the dollar how quickly would he have got offers?

Looking at IHasTehNutz's vig report Lock is currently trading at .38 so to be sure you get funds fast you need to go below that.

We cant demand our pro's dont trade at certain values just as we cant demand our players trade at certain values.

#1 - No one even mentioned he was "clearing out". Has nothing to do with anything.

#2 - This is complete bull hockey. Not the pros under the same cashout conditions - we've seen that where it is indeed the case. The bullstuffs is where this particular Lock pro decided to sell some of his dough. I can count the number of times I've seen a $10k or higher post in the P2P thread on two hands (probably one, but I'll play it safe for now). There's a thread entirely dedicated to higher money trades. Does that mean he couldn't post where he did? Of course not. And this isn't tin foil paranoia - but he posted it where vig is tracked and monitored and where over the entire span of June has been traded on average at .38-.40 vig.

Here's the kicker - the effect of seeing a Lock pro selling $10k at .33 makes anyone selling anything smaller than $10k at a higher vig pretty much good and f'd. Why would I buy $500 worth of Lock for .38 from userY when I can buy it from your pro at .33? It's resetting and cornering the market rate and driving it down. How could Lock stand by and let this happen if trading vig is such a key barometer of what players are feeling about your company - when it's your own player driving the price down??

We've all been willing to buy/sell a little variant of the vig depending on needs. Again - not the point. I can buy or sell Lock at .3 - I don't work for nor am I associated with Lock. Don't you see what's happening here?

I think these pros know the site is busto, and are simply trying to empty their accounts before it's too late.

Shane if Jhub really needed funds and you have confidence in Lock, would Lock buy his funds for 1:1? Seems better optically from here to do that then let him sell at .33.

This.

Reading any more into it without acknowledging that you are just wildly speculating for funnsies is pretty silly.

The pros simply can't get to their own money and have no confidence that they can get it...either at all...or in a timely fashion.

The rate asked for is perfectly reasonable considering the amount he is trying to move and how quickly he obviously wants to get it. There is no conspiracy here most likely. Pros are annoyed and simply can't get to their own money ldo.

So Shane..****ltiple choice question for ya...

What is stopping you from investing everything you have/taking out as many loans as you can, buying up all the lock for sale at .35, waiting "3-4 weeks" and then rubbing it on your tits?

A. That wouldn't been in your best interest because your going under
B. That is what your in the process of making happen
C. Your ******ed

D. The rake requirement they just put in place.

imo

first of all, vnh.




In fantasy lock land world I definitely just got owned.

but lets be real for a bit