They are not scamming people. They obviously are a business that has fallen behind on payments with players, but are trying to catch up. Lock staying in business if worth more money to them than if Lock goes out of business. Yes if they go out of business because of bad choices they made they will take our money. However that is what every poker site will do since nobody can hold them legally accountable. I am not saying what they are doing is right and how they are handling it is the best, but I am differently rooting for them to work it out so I get my money as well as others.

This is a big leap your making. I admit I am making the same one when I say that they are. Fair enough?

But there are other sites out there that are honest site IMO and this one isn't them.

I think it is a bad idea even financially for poker players as a whole to want lock to continue operating. That's like calling down with a hopeless hand because we got too much money in the pot already.

I don't think we can win this one.

Huh? Such contradictions. As long as player funds have been segregated (as lock and their toadies have maintained) nobody's money is at risk. So if Lock goes out of business that will not affect your deposits. They are safe and secure as Jen Larsen has repeatedly stated!
The only way your money is at risk is if they have been using player deposits to fund operating expenses all along. In that case, your money was gone a long time ago my friend. And no 'catching up" will change that. Because that is a Ponzi scheme where new deposits pay for the old ones. there is no way they have been making enough money to pay operating expenses plus pay back player deposits that they raided over the years.

All lock players should hope they go out of business tomorrow:

1- If lock has segregated funds- They shut the doors and you get paid in full quickly.

2- if lock has NOT segregated funds- you have at least a chance of getting some of your money, before they burn through more cash on salaries, bonuses, and outright thievery.

There is no dispute over whether Lock is or is not scamming people. They are. The dispute is over whether they are an intentional ponzi scheme or simply a business with poor management/bad luck who find themselves in a difficult financial position. They are definitely scamming people though.

When they have a rep who constantly lies to its customers then yes they are scammers.

The reason I've gone from fervent Lock supporter (check some of my earlier posts back in October-December 2012) to someone critical of Lock and the way they operate is born in some ways to what's going to happen if Lock did go out of business. They are the #1 skin on Revolution, and though they don't sport the traffic they once had, the impact of Lock going under and out will be felt across the whole online poker world - especially for US players. And it's not a good thing on the whole.

Would it be generally regarded as "good" that Jen Larson and company would be out of the game, so to speak? I think so, but that's subjective and up to you to decide. But aside from that, skins and networks will think twice about how they operate regarding service to US players if Lock does indeed collapse, in my opinion. Of course, Lock has done things that any business owner with common sense would never do. But in terms of what Lock's US player policy was, and the fact that it would be seen as a huge failure, I think it will make future and even current operators a little more cautious. I'm not saying they'll insta-ban American players - but you might see more of what Intertops has done, limiting registration to invites-only, or the like in any case.

Maybe not...hopefully not. We here in the US have, to date, allowed for quite a lot of crap just so we can try to find a reasonably safe place to play poker. Playing on sites like Pokerstars (obviously before BF) and being secure in the knowledge that your funds were safe seems like quite the distant memory. We've been put through the processor ringer, picked up WU payments from people with 4 names, and have to tread carefully in this crazy environment. We've been hardened by the ineptitude of politicians and other poker companies, so we'll put up with quite a bit. But how much longer are companies going to potentially risk their future to offer service to us? How badly would Lock's end effect the already tedious atmosphere?

I don't think anyone is really cheering for Lock's demise in that sense. We just want to play and not have to worry that we might wake up one morning and it'll be all gone. There's less riding on Lock's outcome now then perhaps 5-6 months ago, when a bankrupcy or closing down would have probably caused quite a shift in the online poker world. But still, there's little doubt in my opinion, at least, that Lock's downfall will have its effects. Some good (a poster for how not to be successful long-term in operating a business), and some bad, more than likely (what would happen to Revolution?).

EDIT: And obviously, it goes without saying that the people who've had to endure endless waiting periods for their money already would be the worst affected if Lock went under. The ultimate slap in the face, in my view, to people who've already been slapped around for far too long.

clearly super critical of lock, but why on earth would we want them to fail? Formula how much money have you personally got stuck on lock>? Pm me your sn, i know nearly every ms and hs reg on there.

Im gonna guess that you dont have a lot of money stuck on there. All this leads to why are you so concerned?

Its easy to be this whistleblower on a pedestal, but what is YOUR reasoning? Lock failing utterly would be a complete kick in the nuts for a lot of people. Sure, stop new deposits from people who are not aware of the situation; but give it a chance to reverse.

I think people have been waiting month's for things to reverse for nothing to change except for us to hear about trips for lock pro's and more excuses. Things were suppose to change in June did they?

we deal in probabilities, you want to set fire to $100k or have a 5% shot of getting it back?

I completely agree with Nikinblinds, all the people saying for Lock to fail probably have little or no money on Lock. I personally believe Lock is doing everything possible to fix cash outs and start building their player base again.

1) That is not how it has worked in the past. Every site that went out of business completely has taken players money and ran. Like I said before since people can't be legally held accountable they can take the remaining funds and flee.

2) It doesn't matter if they have segregated funds, if they go under history says they won't pay. Lock cleaning things up and working out is the best thing for US Poker. Well poker being regulated and legal in the USA might be better. However I doubt we will get rakeback or any sort of bonus, so I am not sure how I feel about. Also if you look at the first legal poker room in the USA they don't even have tables above 50bb.

When Lock shuts down and stops paying anyone we can say they are scamming us. I think it is risky to play on Lock, but it is risky to play on any poker site. Heck even Merge is taking 10 weeks to get a check.

I don't think anyone here actively wants Lock to fail. The folks who are pessimistic about Lock are speaking descriptively, not articulating their secret wishes. If anyone is projecting their own desires onto the reality of the situation, it's those who are holding out some realistic hope that Lock is being candid with us and has some sincere hope of being able to turn things around. I don't blame them for that, as obviously nobody wants to believe something that harm their interests.

i would have to argue pretty hard against this statement. Reading through posts actually believe there are quite a few that want it to fail tommorrow and would cheer about it if it did.

- No. The sites were shutdown or failed and then it was discovered that they did not segregate funds. They had been spending player funds all along. Had they been shutdown earlier you may have recouped something.

Your position is inconsistent. You are concerned that Lock will take the money and run. But, then you want to leave Lock alone so they can "clean things up and work them out".
If you think they will take your money and run, why trust them to fix things?

It does matter. Because if they have not been segregating funds you have been lied to and they can not be trusted. Your money is most likely gone. You are giving them time to steal more.

Lock couldnt clean their bedrooms, nevermind a business. Why would you trust someone who you do not believe has segregated your funds in the first place? So you want to trust that someone who stole from you and lied about it, will somehow pay you back?

So its better to have your deposit stolen as long as you get rakeback and a bonus? Rather than have your deposit guaranteed and get less rakeback or bonus?

Wow. Another impressive reason to keep your money on Lock! Are you paying attention to what you are typing? This is just so bad on so many levels................

Yes. You want them to fail ASAP so you at least have some chance to get your money back. The more this lingers on the more likely they are concoting a larger plan to steal everything that isnt nailed down and disappear. 2 choices:

1- They are actually telling the truth- Your $ is segregated and they cut you a check.

2- They have been lying- No segregation. Player balances get reduced each day as they use it to cover operational costs and steal as much as possible before they collapse. With a net outflow- withdrawls exceeding deposits, player balances are further reduced.

So lets have 1,000 more players in the future ask the same question. do we want to set fire to 100k or a 5% shot of getting it back.

I see what you mean, but I don't think that's quite what these folks want. Many think Lock has already "failed" in the sense that they are incurably insolvent and won't be able to turn things around under any scenarios. If you believe this, then you might want their insolvency to be fully manifested ASAP rather than 3 months or 6 months or a year from now, either to save future players from getting scammed, or to keep Lock and its affiliates from profiting more, or whatever. It's not so much rooting for Lock's failure as it is rooting for a particular manner of that failure that will cause the least amount of harm.

If Lock gets shut down you will not get any money. They are not going to get shut down and then hand over players funds. You are talking about Lock like you actually know what you are saying. Yes they have slow payouts, but that doesn't mean that are scamming people. Lock has not stolen anything from anyone. You are acting as if they went out of business already.

I had a great response written and then deleted it. honestly I did.

We are both poker players, correct?

We both want a poker site that is legit and honest, correct?

We can argue back and forth for as long as lock has been promising quicker withdrawal times. The true is, is that it would be nice for lock to somehow out of the blue start paying its players and continue to do so to where players would put there trust back with them.

All we have is history, and history shows that lock will come and go like a bad flu just like other companies have and leave us going "meh' what's left for internet players these days.

There is no sign of improvement over a timeframe that is a good chunk of OUR LIFETIME.

F lock until there is real changes. Lets see if this happens together, but don't waste effort on it.

I think the player money wasn't segregated, and that it's all gone, or nearly all gone. Is there another plausible explanation for the entirety of the actions we've seen from this company over the past year? I certainly can't think of one.

My biggest concern is for the new players who might show up, only to get fleeced. Knowing what we know, it's all of our duty to warn newcomers about the situation at Lock - especially on this site, where people are very aware of the situation. It wouldn't be right to sit by silently while new, naive people are about to be ripped off.

And let's be honest, everyone on this site knew that Lock was shady, at least to some extent - we've seen it all before.

Since we deal in probabilities are you selling your lock funds at .20-.25 now since that seems better then a 5% shot at getting your money?

20-25k 100% of the time if I am selling it sounds better then getting 100k 5% of the time.

There was a time when nikinblinds' post wouldn't have lasted 10 minutes on a 2+2 forum without two pages of folks correcting his math, LOL. Thanks for posting what everyone was thinking, allovaurface.

Yes I will agree to disagree. Lock Pokers performance has been poor for a while, but I am hopefully they will get cash out times under 2 months. As I said before when nobody reports a cash out for a month then I will be worried, but right now waiting 4 months is frustrating.

Dude the scam started the moment the purchase of Revolution/Cake fell though. How long did they lead us on making everyone think that the purchase had actually happened? And what about the whole retreat issue? The player transfer issues? Everytime someone from Lock opens their mouth it is just more lies. Why do you not hear from Rizen anymore? He does want to have lie to everyone for Lock. Until Lock actually comes clean or they finally shut down the scam will continue.