That's the question asked in this 4flush article:


http://www.4flush.com/online-poker-news/lock-poker-troubles-continue-with-ring-game-fencing/12306

"Should players be worried? In a word, 'YES'"

I'm worried about all US sites. IMO the last few months have been terrible for online poker in the US. Perhaps it means we are getting closer to regulation. As the saying goes its always darkest before the dawn.

Look at ACR and that network. The beast is absolutely terrible. You almost can't be a winning player on the site. Only a few people truly make money from the beast. Merge just drastically cut rb to they're heaviest grinders and they tried to spin it to be a positive. Also, don't forget you can't do player transfers anymore.

I'm not defended Lock in what segregating player pools. It was a bad move, but it seems like all US sites suck.

Until they start paying row players in a timely fashion these rumors will persist.

Why do ROW players even play on a US site? Any bonus or advantage you could gain from doing so would be greatly trumped by the quality of PS. No long waits on withdraws. It really amazes me that people from outside the US would play on any US site.

I would love the opportunity to play on PS FTP Party 888 or any of those sites instead.

While I know a few do grind on Lock, the vast majority are either just sitting good games or simply buying funds in the marketplace and hoping to clean up on the vig. I'm sure this doesn't help/persuade Lock to process ROW transactions faster as then everyone with any liquid capital would be dumb not to buy at .70/1 if they were able to get their funds in any reasonable time frame and the money gets pulled from the ecosystem with zero turnover for Lock.

Whether or not Lock can speed up processing times isn't really even an issue, imo, as every other US facing site in the industry is able to do it. Lock presumably has every resource other sites have, they simply choose not to implement them. They have a motivation for the delayed payouts, and what that motivation is is where it goes from absolutes to rampant speculation.

My thing is that all of the above can be answered with one question but Shane (who is nothing more than a PR rep who's sole responsibility is to manage and spin the flow of information from the company to the public in the best light possible) will not make clear the most pertinent facet of the processing.

Is it that all the other sites are in clear violation of the UIGEA with their processing and that's how they're able to be much faster than Lock and that what Lock is doing is 100% legit in regards to UIGEA and this is where the delay comes from?

Or is it that Lock also operates in violation of the UIGEA just like all of the other sites and the delays are the result of them profiting more with the slower process times at the expense of getting players their money?

If this would get answered clearly and concisely it would clear up a mountain of resentment and speculation because imo the first scenario is totally acceptable and should be in most peoples eyes. I would be all in favor of delayed cash outs if I knew they were operating 100% outside the illegalities of the UIGEA because it would mean it's considerably safer to have your money on Lock and we don't have to worry about another Black Friday type incident with them. OTOH the second scenario would be completely unacceptable and we would then be able to make an informed decision that Lock doesn't have the players best interest at heart, they are intentionally delaying cash outs for profit and that they are not worthy of our business.

Unfortunately I have my opinions on what the answer to the above is and am in the process of moving my entire roll and volume off of their site. Just based on the fact that Lock still accepts players from states that are 100% illegal to accept customers from (NY, WASH) makes me believe it's the latter of the above scenario. Shane will never answer this question, though, as scenario 1 would require additional explanation and proof because there's no real reason to be secretive if they aren't in violation of UIGEA and scenario 2 is a complete slap in the face to the players who will then tell Lock to blow it out their ass and move to a different room.

I like your thought process and this is a legitimate question. Also like your team of choice

SEE! exactly what my previous posts were basically getting at, and I think my wording was scummy? ironic that most grinders are actually on lock while they try to blame other more successful skins. People keep going on about delayed payments (rightfully so) but that isn't even the main issue, its the fact they have already segregated games before even creating a stable network (first priority) which leads me to believe lock is truely doing a hit and run. Jennifer larsson and the other shady character shes worked with in this past, are both signs she cannot run a growing business for love nor money (literally!)

And I'm wasting my time saying this but lock, a press release or announcement would come in handy sometime soon?

I am very worried. I find it unbelievable that just a few months ago the vig for their site was sitting around .72 - .75... Now, if I am doing a four digit trade, I am not paying anymore then .67ish and even that is not what I am aiming for. Customers are loosing their faith.

I'm also pretty worried. I have a decent amount stuck on there and I don't know whether its better to take a hit on the vig or cashout (and wait until summer?!) so I can get my money in full.

Imo it depends on how much you have on your account. Anything excess of a second cashout timeframe is a 100% sure sell-off imo: you can always buy back later if need be.

Say you have a WU pending for 2k and have 3k in your account, then selling 1k more to get at max. 2k on your account is really a no-brainer. Again, if you get the cashouts done and broke even during this timeframe or lost some, you can still buy it back for a maximal usage of your cashouts.

Anything that isn't a real excess, is kind of a gamble and you'll have to decide for yourself. Imo, at this point, selling at a decent rate is never a real effective loss because you can always buy it back later at the same rate. As a general rule of thumb i'd say keep as little on your account as really needed, sell the rest, and if need be buy back later.

Right now, i'm actually NOT doing this myself because of the Grind for Glory promotion.. I have too much in my account, because i didn't want to be in a situation where i go on a downswing and don't have enough funds anymore to win the promotion.. since i've pretty much won the promotion already though (no1 can reasonably catch up anymore) i guess i'm gunna start selling off as much as possible aswell..

Thinly veiled brag

The ship already sunk, you are all breathing underwater at this point. If you can get .67 it's stealing.

Oh yes.. for sure, lol.

Yes, i'm very happy, sorry (but not really sorry, u know LOL)

Shane's name should be in that article. He has to know the financial problems Lock is going through and has refused to acknowledge it in these forums despite the potential life changing effects it could have on players.

The poker community is small and absolutely no one in business with lock believes the lies they've been telling. They might not say it publicly because Jen in vindictive and will screw them over. Deceiving players in this way should cause real life consequences if they don't turn it around.

It's still all speculation. There's no proof. Just comments from "people who know people".

They have no duty to respond or say anything if they don't want to. Anyone playing on a site still accepting US players is a fool if they didnt know the risk they were taking when they started playing on the site. There has always been a risk of these sites going down. It just seems like a greater risk at the moment.

Everyone complaining has no one to blame but themselves.

I really don't understand how this works by the way, can anyone elaborate? Isn't a site's one and only revenue Rake? If so, isn't by definition giving players more options to play vs other players more rake, and thus more revenue? Sure, there may be this monthly reconcilliation, but that's PLAYER FUNDS in the first place, why do these matter at all, in the least? And if they do matter, then yes that's a sure sign of liquidity problems.

Totally agree. It's his right as Lock's PR to respond in any way he sees fit.

However for obvious reasons I'd like his name to be attached to those responses when the media covers this story.

Def the best route to go. Also, congrats on the promo. I have not played on lock for a few months now but I checked the standings about a week ago and you were destroying!

By the way, anyone know how things would work if i decide to actually go to the WSOP in regards to tax and whatnot? I'm ROW, not at all aware of US tax regulations. What would i be paying if i win anything?

If cashout times were better, i'd 100% always just take the cash equivalent rather than go to the WSOP, because i'm a FLHE player, so a NLHE tournament will likely be a waste on me. With the cashout times or vig i'll be paying on my money, i have an actual decision though. Where exactly will the WSOP be held anyway?

Most of the players that play high stakes have high rb so they aren't making much. The one's that don't have high rb are most likely fish and having less big games where fish dump money is good for a site. The fish will play lower where they dump the money at a much slower rate.

There's also the problem of some skins having higher percentages of high stakes winners. Most of the guys that win a lot have moved their play to Intertops because of super fast cashouts. Because of this Lock is most likely having to move a lot of money over to Intertops to reconcile. They've proven they are terrible at moving money efficiently so instead of constantly having to reconcile with other skins they've decided it's best to restrict high stakes games. The outcome of these games never results in them having to move money to another skin.

Right. So their only gain is not having to move money to other skins anymore. But for their bottomline, i still don't see how it's any good. It's NOT THEIR money they're having to reconcile, it's PLAYER'S money, that's exactly my point. So their only gain is.. not having to go through the process/undertaking of having to ship those funds, sure, given the amount of money involved, that may actually be a real task/undertaking, but it does NOT affect their bottomline in a positive way ever, infact it'll only ever affect them negatively, because, as i said before, RAKE is the only revenue of a site (unless someone can point me out what else? I don't see it? Intrest on the player's money at the bank maybe?) Less players to play against = less tables going = less rake paid.

.. see my point? can anyone explain me what's their GAIN in this? Yes, you've told me the reconcilliation, i get that, i DON'T get how it matters to them however since again, it's player's money, not theirs. So.. if it does matter to them, then they're doing something really wrong.

Basically this isn't a valid argument at all imo, i don't see how a site at any network would care in the least where the money ever goes. Oh, actually, i can think of ONE single reason: the payment processor once again. More losing players means more deposits on your skin/site. Since every deposit means a ~10% cost of the deposit for the site, making people deposit less effectively does cut in their costs.

Man, all of this looks like such a giant mess imo.. I really can't fathom any of it tbh, i'm sooo curious on what the truth is behind all of this..

If i were you i would just go there and enjoy a vacation and just sell your seat at the cage for cash for a small discount. Not sure what the rules are about flying back with that much money but I'm sure you could wire it back. Much better option then getting it sent to your lock account. Also you need to read the TOS because I won a seat like this once on a different site and i sold it back to them but they would only give me the cash for the flight and seat not the money for hotel and food. They said since I didn't go they couldn't credit it me for that.

"Take the top position on the leaderboard and win a WSOP ME Buy-in, Helicopter Tour of the Grand Canyon, 10 hours of one on one coaching from one of the ELITE Pros and then join the entire LockPRO team in Vegas for dinner during the WSOP."

There's really no other info out there, unless you think they detail this particular promotion in their general TOS? Don't think so, or maybe TOS in regards to "won seats" in general? That could be i guess.

Shane did tell me "we always offer a cash equivalent aswell". He could not tell me the exact amount and/or whether the dinner/heli tour/coaching would have a cash equivalent aswell "likely take it or leave it" he said, but not certain. I wonder how exactly the coaching would work.. purely online, i hope, in that case i can take that no matter what, and probably will so i can be taught some NLHE strategy (not going to bother with FLHE because i don't think there's any FLHE pro's)

I don't think the WSOP allows a site to directly register a player anymore.

I would expect at least the ME buy-in to be placed in your account.

Nop, indeed, i just read it on their site, "3rd party registering is not allowed" or something of that sorts. How do they go about this, though? Lol. If the only way to buy in is cash money (it also says that on their site) then how can't anyone at Lock or one of their pro's just hand the cash and let me register that way?

I just contacted live support about this, and they say they'll only be able to give me more information after the promotion has ended. We'll see i guess. Well, if they put it in my Lock account, with some luck i'll be able to have cashed it out before the WSOP starts