I totally agree. This is what has amazed me thru this whole debacle. Not a single email from Lock saying, "Sorry for all the cashout delays, but stick with us because we're here for the long haul, and we appreciate your business and hope you'll stay with us as we recover and become bigger and better than ever!" Or some sort of sugar coated thing like that. Instead, just silence. Why doesn't Lock want us to stay?

Nobody at Lock has the decency or basic business acumen to even consider that the customers might be relieved to receive a message like that.

This is what I picked up from it too, which creates my confusion and follow-ups. What I don't understand is how Shane can say that the backlog would be paid within 5 weeks. That's saying that EVERY outstanding withdrawal request from today (July 25th, 2013) dating all the way back, will be paid in 4-5 weeks. There is simply no possible way. Again, that's just my opinion, but I don't think it's an unreasonable one. There are STILL people waiting to get paid from December, January, February, etc.

What would give any indication that in 4-5 weeks, all of those would be paid, including all outstanding ones from March-June, AS WELL as all recent requests made in July up to today? I'd believe a lot of things before I'd be able to wrap my head around that.

Unless Santa Claus is their newest acquired processor, we're speaking of complete myths here.

Shane

If I misinterpreted this then I apologize. But the logic still applies if you follow it thru:

- You are saying new cash outs take 4-5 weeks
- You are saying their is a direct correlation between the back log and new cash outs
- You are saying the backlog has to be cleared for new cash outs to take 4-5 weeks

Therefore (all things being equal) the backlog has to be cleared within 4-5 weeks. If not, you can not quote a 4-5 week time frame for new cash outs to new customers. You would have to quote revised and longer cash out times. In essence, you current backlog should only be 4-5 weeks and we know it goes back further. The fact that you have people still waiting on December, January, and February cash outs would be evidence that the backlog is still quite substantial and not supportive of quoting a 4-5 week lead time on new cash outs. Is that making sense? If the 4-5 week lead time for new cash outs is accurate, I would expect to see May and June pending cash outs and nothing else much longer. A handful of exceptions at most.

Forget dollar amounts as they are confidential. How many pending cash outs are there for each month of this year?


Vindictive- Yes. I think we are both seeing the same issue. You may have explained it better.

I don't know how this isn't the case. You can't cash out new cashouts until the backlog is clear, and you have people from January that haven't been paid. I don't know why you guys are continuing to lie to your customers, there isn't a way possible that you will have them paid in 4-6 weeks, unless you just pay people via dart system. You guys should be honest with your current backlog to people requesting cashouts.

You guys have a real issue with customer service, just on how you guys go about your business, without informing your customers is beyond pathetic, thats in regards to many things. I don't run a business or anything, but poor customer service can run a company into failure, if it's not already there in the case of lock.

Honestly, Shane put his foot in his mouth with this one. There's no other way to interpret what he said other than what we all have subsequently summarized.

Wish he'd respond more frequently, but honestly both times I've looked at Shane's profile today, (at two completely different hours of the day), he was viewing the Intertops thread. Nothing wrong with viewing what you want, but suffice amounts of timely responses to your actual customers would be an obvious priority to me.

I'm sure it's also coincidence that Intertops didn't allow it's winning MTT players to sign-in the last 2 Sundays too (obviously the largest profit/MTT day of the week). It's all over the Intertops thread about how players weren't able to sign on (all of whom have verified being winning MTT players, while losing MTT players have verified being able to sign-in on those Sundays).

My speculation remains the same, that Lock has money issues, and the Revolution Network, (which includes Intertops), can't afford to have other players winning large amounts from Lock players when that money isn't easy to transfer. When there's a more logical explanation presented, I'd be happy to change my opinion on that.

Any of the super old cashouts aren't sitting at the back of the queue with every cashout since then still to be paid out behind them. Something has gone wrong in those cases and it needs to be cleared up, they aren't a part of the normal process.

I just dont understand how you can reach these conclusions with such definite conclusions with no real access to any data to help you reach these conclusions.



Im not allowed to post total number of cashouts, but I have a list and the total sum on my list is achievable.

What list are you basing your conclusions on?

Shane why are you ignoring my question wrt customer service?
Shane why are you ignoring my question wrt customer service?
Shane why are you ignoring my question wrt customer service?
Shane why are you ignoring my question wrt customer service?
Shane why are you ignoring my question wrt customer service?
Shane why are you ignoring my question wrt customer service?
Shane why are you ignoring my question wrt customer service?
Shane why are you ignoring my question wrt customer service?
Shane why are you ignoring my question wrt customer service?
Shane why are you ignoring my question wrt customer service?

We fully understand that something with the processors you said has went wrong. What were saying because of this you shouldn't be out right lying to your customers. That is as simple as it gets, we know that in 4-6 weeks they will not have their money. I have a few friends that recently cashed out some funds and well see about this unrealistic 4-6 weeks lie. Since you have a list what % of 2+2 is waiting for a cashout, maybe your just blacklisting us all lol.

What do you mean "certain amount"? Do you mean money, processed requests, generated sender info??? So if WU tells you how much money you can process in a certain week, what's the money limit? And don't just say it varies, but what have been some WU limits in recent past weeks?

What conclusions are you referring to? The fact that I said my SPECULATION is that Lock has money issues? Hmm.. let's see how I could possibly think that:

1) I've seen Lock struggle to payout their players in EVERY facet of the term withdrawal. Whether WU, Skrill, Neteller, Check - they all seem to be coincidentally struggling at the same time. Oh, and this has happened for A LONG TIME NOW.

2) You, Shane, have presented us with the estimation of when we'd be seeing DRASTIC improvements, and that was by the first week of June. It is now almost August and improvements are so microscopic that one can actually make the observation of ZERO improvement.

3) Lock can't even figure out ways to pay ROW players at a decently fast pace. Lock is currently selling VERY low in the marketplace, and there aren't even small GROUPS of people who have faith in Lock due to cashout times. People aren't selling their Lock $ at such a discount simply due to not wanting to wait 1-2 months. People are selling Lock $ at such a discount because they are afraid that it will take 5-6+ months.

4) Lock can't even get their own store in order. They cannot even send ordered items to customers in a timely manner. Coincidentally, this too has an excuse of being blamed on an employee change in overseeing this. A more likely story is money is tight and items cost REAL dollars to buy and give away.

5) Lock cannot even deliver us a date or even BEST GUESS as far as when cashout times will be reasonable again. There doesn't seem to be an end in sight, and Lock seems more like the little boy who cried wolf about their "improvements" as opposed to the little engine who could.

6) Intertops, another skin on the same network, is coincidentally having their own winning MTT players prevented from signing on to play on Sundays dating back two Sundays now. This is probably pressure from the Network and not Intertops themselves, but on that, I do not know. What most of us with brains CAN infer is that it's due to not wanting them to play and win money from Lock players, as that Lock $ probably doesn't exist. If you have a better explanation, I'm all ears.

But hey, you're right, clearly I'm making SO many crazy conclusions. How about you present us with some information to change our minds? It's been nearly 2 months since you last talked about how things would be getting better in a matter of a couple weeks. If Lock was paying out players in 4-5 week wait times, you wouldn't even be hearing from us. The fact is, they aren't. That's what we care about: results.

Shane,

I do not believe I reached a conclusion. I was trying to work through several points based on your earlier statements. Please re-read my post for clarification as I maybe a little wordy. How are you quoting a 4-5 week lead time for new cash outs if you still have a back log of pending cash outs going back to December, January, February and March? .

Can you breakout the list by month?
I was not interested in dollar volumes

Thx

I've been waiting since 4/7.

Still extremely confused about what timeframe I would expect a cashout through western union if I were to withdraw today. I seem to infer from this thread that it is 4-5 weeks? but every time Shane responds it seems to be very cryptic, maybe I'm just a poor reader I don't know.

It sure as hell won't be 4-6 weeks unless they do their payouts via lottery.

requested max WU on 6-19, havent heard a peep.

Forgive me If i dont believe in your 4-5 week timeframe for new requests.

I also have a max WU request from early April, does this mean I can count on seeing it soon?

Let's assume for a moment that this is true, and that all of the super old cash outs are abnormal in some way, that something went wrong for those customers and their situation isn't normal.

1) Why does it take so long for Lock to fix issues for customers when they crop up, 2) why doesn't Lock communicate with these customers so that they know that Lock is working on their unique case, and 3) what changes is Lock going to make so that so many people don't have something go wrong with their cash outs?

1) Its not a coincidence that all cashout options ended up struggling. Checks were a problem which put more pressure on WU, the greater volume of WU then created a problem with WU which led to more people trading funds off to ROW players to cashout which led to the problem of trying to move more and more money over to fund the ROW cashout options. The checks essentially created an avalanche.

2) We as a room have promised improvements and while the progress has been slower than I would like we continue to work our way forward. All we can do is keep pushing through as many cashouts as possible and keep clearing the backlog and getting things back under control.

3) It is a problem getting enough funds moved over to the ewallets to get them funded but we continue to push them through another Skrill batch went out today and another will go Monday or Tuesday. These consistent weekly and sometimes twice weekly are making good progress on getting the ROW cashouts under control in their own right, and as the US cashouts improve the effects will improve tenfold as there wont be the same reliance on ROW players cashing out US funds.

4) Or quite simply the person in the role was not keeping it under control and had to be replaced.

5) More hopeful timeframes wont make this situation better, only cash in hand for our players will. So that is our current focus.

6) That situation has nothing to do with the network, it was an internal decision from that room which was handled by their own team and the network support staff first heard about it when I reach out to them about it. For a greater explanation of what they were trying to achieve you will have to ask them, I can speak for them.


I cant give any detailed numbers but I can say that rather than a backlog of pending cashouts stretching back to December we have a backlog of cashouts with a couple of very old cashouts but mostly recent cashouts.


That is the timeframe the cashier team are giving players that cashout now, so yes they are saying that is how long it should take if you cashout via WU right now.


1) It doesnt always take a long time for issues to be fixed when they are found, cashouts are problematic with the volume restrictions we have to work with limiting our ability to clear up cashout problems as fast as we would like.

2) In many cases players are contacted but it gets to the point where the only communication players want is the completion of their cashout so it becomes a case of the communication being less than what they expected not non-existent.

3) The changes are improved support team and new processors.

Shane, you honestly type a decent amount and yet say so little. You detail us nothing in your responses. Oh and btw, if your entire payout system relies on EVERY single method working properly otherwise it'll cause an "avalanche" as you say, then that's horrific.

That's essentially saying that at any time moving forward, if just 1 of your payout methods struggles, delays, or especially halts, that there is a chance of a downward spiral to create this backlog all over again. You simply cannot rely so heavily on EVERY payout method to work squeaky clean, as you yourself have said things can change on a week's notice. That makes your payout system extremely risky to rely on for customers.

You address the questions sure. But you don't specifically outline anything that can be done, or WILL be done to help us moving forward, give us more faith in Lock's system, decision making, or customer service, OR even detail ways that Lock plans on NEVER letting this happen again.

Oh and btw, you just said this: "In many cases players are contacted but it gets to the point where the only communication players want is the completion of their cashout so it becomes a case of the communication being less than what they expected not non-existent." I've NEVER been contacted first by Lock Support about anything regarding communication, changes, or pending withdrawals (and I waited 5 months in total to receive my last one). I've never even HEARD of a few cases of that happening. But I love how you can quickly generalize that in MANY cases players are contacted. That's another joke.

What are you referring to? Do you mean it is achievable that you can provide us with the total sum of cash outs per month?

Why cant you provide the detail of how many old cashouts are still pending from prior months. I am not asking for amounts or processors. Just the number of pending cashouts.


I saw this recent post, and there do seem to be a lot of the them recently. Could you explain why this individual has not been received a response to his inquiries? I have no idea if he is a nut or if anything he is saying is correct, but you might want to put this to bed one way or another. This might be a good example for you to highlight in terms of cashout out problems and issues that affect other customers.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19...09/index3.html

I don't know what universe you are living in but it's not the one your customers on 2p2 are inhabiting. All of the cash out threads are littered with people saying they've never heard from Lock in reference to their cash outs, or that they only time they hear from Lock is when THEY initiate contact (and often several times before hearing anything back).

How many times do your own customers have to tell you that your communication sucks before Lock starts thinking, hey, maybe our communication sucks? Maybe we should change some of the ways in which we talk to our customers? Maybe instead of our customers, who are waiting for their money, having to be the ones to chase us up, we should be proactive and keep them updated so they don't feel as if don't care about them at all except in terms of how much they can rake for us and how much **** they're willing to eat?

Everything I see around these forums and on your Facebook page represents a large number of old cashouts that have not been fulfilled, a large number of new cashouts that have not been fulfilled, and a very very very very very small number of old and recent cashouts that have been fulfilled. Explain to me why this is like I was a 6 year old if what you say above is actually the reality.


Given the above, would I be better off canceling my March 6th withdrawal and re-submitting it now? If so, wtf?????

This is actually a valid point. As of today (actually sooner per shane), every single person who has a WU cashout should get their money within 4-5 weeks. And any old cash outs have to be received even sooner, as old cashouts have to be processed before new ones. The only exception should be some unusual circumstance with the cashout.

Shane has confirmed that the 4-5 week WU time frame is accurate and firm per his Cashier manager. So every NEW reguest from this point forward will be received in this 4-5week window. All of you with OLD cashouts will get your money even sooner, as these will be processed before the new ones.

Actually Lock service has been quoting the 4-5 week time on WU cashouts for about a month or so (?) I think. Could anyone confirm how long they have been doing this? In that case we could look at the late June/July time frame. There should be no outstanding cashout by the end of this month that go beyond June. Mid June to the end of July would be 4-6 weeks. If there are any cash outs before this point, then Lock is not being forthright. The only cashouts beyond June would have to be rare exceptions.

Would that be correct Shane?