Hey all, I'm going to be copying this into the RPM subforum as well. I was talking with a few other grinders and we've come up with this document to send in to the merge network.

I'll include links in the email I send to this thread and also to the RPM thread.

If there's anything else that is clearly missing in the bugs/fixes area, please post as I'll most likely be shipping the email Sunday night. This document is NOT meant to be something to get tournaments added/new ideas brainstormed, before we move forward, we must fix what is wrong with the system first.

If you'd like to cosign the document I send to Rizen (and hopefully it gets forwarded to the network), please PM me your real name and I'll add you, and if you're not comfortable with that, then at least your screename on Lock.

I'm hoping the Merge Network listens to us like Pokerstars has done in the past/still does.

Thanks all,

Josh

_______________________________________


To whom it may concern,

There has been a lot of speculation and complaining about the Merge Network MTT’s in general and specifically a large majority of regular players think that the payout system really needs to be changed. There are other issues/bugs which will be just simply listed at the end of this email, but we really need to talk about the payout structure!

The big issue is that most tourneys either pay out too many people, or not enough. If a tournament has 49 players in it, 5 people are paid, but if 50 are in it, then 10 are paid. This is a pretty ludicrous system to have in place, especially because a lot of the field sizes hover around this number, especially in non guaranteed tourneys and HSMTT’s. The other big problem is that the payouts are way too topheavy and also, you cannot have a mincash be for less than the buyin of the tournament which seem to happens regularly.

What should happen is each tournament should be paying out ~15% on average and the 45 man payout structure should be used for many of the small field tournaments that get 40-75 players in them, whether it’s a HSMTT or a non guaranteed prizepool. Below are a few examples of how the payout structure could work in different field sizes that is a good first step in making the payout system better.

Example A: $33 6.5k, 187 player field
Your Payouts:
11th-20th: $65, 10th: $113.75, 9th: $146.25, 8th: $195, 7th: $260, 6th: $325, 5th: $390, 4th: $520, 3rd: $650, 2nd: $1300, 1st: $1950

Proposed Payouts:
11th-18th: $110.50, 10th: $123.50, 9th: $162.50, 8th: $195, 7th: $260, 6th: $325, 5th: $390, 4th: $585, 3rd: $845, 2nd: $1105, 1st: $1625


Example B: $16.50 4k, 326 player field
Your Payouts:
41st-50th: $12.22, 31st-40th: $24.45, 21st-30th: $36.67, 11th-20th: $48.90, 10th: $73.36, 9th: $97.81, 8th: $122.26, 7th: $146.71, 6th: $195.61, 5th: $244.51, 4th: $293.41, 3rd: $391.21, 2nd: $831.31, 1st: $1271.41

Proposed Payouts:
28th-36th: $36.68, 19th-27th: $41.57, 16th-18th: $53.79, 13th-15th: $66.01, 10th-12th: $78.24, 9th: $92.91, 8th: $122.25, 7th: $171.15, 6th: $220.05, 5th: $283.62, 4th: $415.65, 3rd: $552.57, 2nd: $733.50, 1st: $1000.00

Obviously, looking at the examples, “A” is more so copying the way you pay out currently (ie 11th-20th getting $x and 10th getting $x) than “B” is, but no matter which you look at, the payouts are smoother and will definitely be a beneficial change.

The payout structures should be the highest prioritized change on Merge when looking at the tournament system as a whole, but there are also other quirks and/or bugs on the site. They will be listed below.

- PLO/PLO8 tourneys should not have antes in them. I have never seen an Omaha tourney, online or live, that has antes in it. In addition, there should be 6max PLO tourneys added to the schedule as there currently are none, and PLO is simply a 6max game online.
- Better filters for both SNG’s and MTT’s. They need to have more options by game type or at least by each icon in the legend.
- Allow notes on a player to be read from a lobby of a game, and before that even, can us tournament players and SNG players at least see icon’s we’ve left on players like the cash gamers? They click a table and can see who’s a regular if they mark players, we click a lobby and get nothing!
-SNG’s need bigger antes in them, the simple change would be to mirror MTT’s and have the ante be 10% of the BB starting at 50/100.
-The in-game hand history is awful. It needs to be completely redone to just simply be better (Pokerstars does this well).
- Auto add-on and double-rebuy buttons. There should be an easy way to rebuy so that it is easily done before the start of the next hand if I'm eligible.
- Deal making system for the FT, Pokerstars very much so needs to add this as well; Full Tilt definitely had this one right.
- When you win a SNG, please do not have that second popup telling us how much we won, we already know we won with the first popup before we close out the table.
- SNG leaderboard points need to be distributed better. The super turbo players are basically guaranteed to place every month with any sort of volume.

-Add/move more tournaments to coincide with the peak hours, which are mainly 7pm EST-12am EST.
-The $80 rebuy needs to be moved to an earlier time, it doesn’t begin til 1am EST and it goes at least 4 hours every night. Consider starting it at 8pm EST as there is no big buyin at 8pm EST and the $60 3k and $215 high roller start at 9pm EST.
- $1 Dollar Dazzler rebuys really need to have a late registration attached to them as that will make the prizepool grow by 50-75% most times. Also, the 1r that begins at 19:00 EST needs to be changed to 19:15 EST start time to mirror the starting time of every other 1r on the site (15 minutes past the hour).
- $3.30r 2k at 19:15 EST has the addon period at break (which is normal) yet late entries are allowed for 15 minutes past the addon period. The tournament either needs to start at 19:00 EST, or the addon period needs to be after the break when the hour long rebuy period is up.
- $5.50 6max at 20:50 EST is listed as a turbo in the title, yet it has 10 minute levels.

Thank you for considering this major change in the payout structure and then also looking into these other suggestions, hopefully these will be great improvements that in turn make the site grow more and keep the regular customers happy.

Joshua S Hoesel

I think you may have more luck getting others to sign-on if you limit the e-mail to only one subject, the payout structure. Others may not agree with all of the other requests you make. Just my 2 cents...

lol 3x mincash lol but you do make some very good points about other bits.

thats copying their absurd way of paying out, aka 11th-20th, 10th, 9th, 8th etc... obv a better system is in example "B" but if they can't get "A" right, then how do we move on to a more complex/correct payout system?

cosign

i agree with what you said almost to a tee. they need more tournies in general all hours i cant tell you how many morei would sign up in if they were4 available and i cant be alone i bet they woulod fill simliar to other ones they are running now

Well done jdawg!

cleaned up the email a bit and sent it in

I agree wtih you about the odd number of ppl getting paid out but I'm having a really hard time understanding why you wanna get paid less when you take 1st or 2nd.

I think that the best thing about playing on a smaller site like lock cause you get a ton of chances to make final tables and you make money playing mtts by shipping stuff.

This could be somewhat corrected by just allowing players to make deals and then ppl could work their own **** out.

Also, why does the dollar dazzler have a better structure than the $22r? I understand its a turbo (both mtts have 7min blinds which is fine) but why not start everyone out with 2000 (instead of 1500) and do a 4k add on (instead of 2)? Or at least do a 4-5k addon. It wouldn't really make it that much longer but it would def make it more worth it to play it.

Add in that the Super Turbos pay out structure should change from 70 /30 to 60/40 and I'll sign.

Why? I agree that this gives the games added variance, but most people play enough of them that it does not even matter. If anything, it gives an added advantage to those players who know how to play high blind, heads up poker.

You're whining about super turbos is become quite humorous to be honest.

payouts need to be changed on MTTs for sure, but i dont like ur numbers really. i think they will come up with a decent payout structure if it can get enough backing from all the skins. im sure this one was just a huge mistake that they thought was fine at the time. its pretty dumb to mincash for less than a buyin. good idea and many have been thinking it, so kudos for taking some extra initiative. gl.

EDIT: i agree with the latter points also. but as the other guy said, ur better off hitting them with a single idea at a time if ur pushing for it. just my 2c.

Yea it wasnt designed as a "they have to follow these payouts" just bringing up the fact that a change is needed

both rizen and sethrpm have fwd'd it on and are behind us, so hopefully some good comes out of this

Can removal of 10 seated tables be thrown in aswell? thoughts?

I approve.

antes in omaha tourneys are awesome. f that

Reset of poker royalty tiers=Bull****

Now I gotta start fresh? I might just be tilted by it, and some people prolly like this idea.

learn to adjust your play to the payout structure

Okay.

I agree with you. I hope you feel that the tournament blind structure is a bit weird as well but thats a topic all in itself. xD

agreed, the payouts on merge are dog ****

just cashed in a tourney............. for less than the bi

I'm still not in favor of awarding less to 1st and 2nd.

Get rid of the meaningless min cashes and add that money to 3-5.

Also give us the ablity to chop and ppl can work out their own deals.

this has worked not at all they aren't listening and don't care

payouts will always be f****d unless they start getting more traffic