They are already judge, jury and executioner regarding anything else you do on their site. Whether it be trashtalking, collusion, any other form of cheating, threathening people irl, really anything, they will always be judge, jury and executioner regarding any of those. Why not for these disputes?

All of those things that you mentioned would occur on their software and are far more clearly defined where as this situation takes place primarily off of their software. I don't think they should be involved. I don't have a lot of faith in their judgement based on how they've handled other situations in the past.

Ok, I am going to try to answer all the questions I can, this thread has blown up... Which I am happy about.

First of all, the main question I see being raised is why didn't I send in screenshots of my Paypal to security. Answer: I DID! As I have already stated in my first response Security (and Customer Service as a whole) have been dodging my emails and I haven't received a response going on a couple of weeks now. After I received the email that my account would remain closed and $1k forfeited, I immediately sent a screenshot of my Paypal, and never received a response a couple of days later. I then followed this email up with 4 more asking about updates on the situation. And like I said, going on a couple of weeks now with no response.

Secondly, people are suggesting that I let Lock login to my Paypal account (which has loads of personal financial information enclosed such as credit card info, banking account info, etc.). Are you kidding me?! I would NEVER let these crooks log into my Paypal
account, especially after they have stole $1k from me.

Thirdly, I saw the question raised if the amount confiscated was the same as the disputed amount in the Paypal trade. No, the disputed amount in the Paypal trade was $50. I had $1k in my Lock account. That fact alone lets you know this is blatant fraud.

Here is what I imagine Lock's thought process was on this:

"Oh someone is presenting easily faked evidence about an off-site transaction against a player who has had MANY successful P2P trades in the past... this is obviously bullcrap. Oh wait... this guy just requested a $1k cashout. Maybe this easily faked evidence brought against an obviously reputable trader is legitimate after all. Freeze the account seize the funds!"

Obviously from your guys's standpoint either person involved in this could be the scammer (although I'm not sure what I would have to gain exposing a scam I did just to point out Lock took my funds because of it...) But the bottom line is Lock should not have been invovled even if I WAS the scammer.

I just want to clarify this a little.

From reading this thread it reads as player was supposed to send you Paypal and you were going to send him Lock funds, but then this fell through and you were accused of scamming.

This of course led to the discussion of the accuser only being able to verify this by paypal which of course can be faked.


Now when I saw you post saying the transfer was only for $50 and your account for close to $1000 was closed I thought it sounded extreme so I did some of my own digging and what I turned up was very interesting.

What the real story was is completely different to what is posted here. The accuser didn't send via Paypal they sent via a Lock transfer. So we didnt need to verify it with documents that can be forged, the evidence is in our own database.

And whats also interesting is that the funds that are held are actually tournament winnings won with the funds you received from the accuser and then you submitted a cashout for the whole amount only offering to send the funds back to him via Lock again after you account was closed.

HAHA! karma you!

Something does not feel right here. Shane you just stated you did some digging around after op's last post about the $50 transfer but should you not have found this out before making ANY comments? Seems to me you either had no idea what was going on earlier in the thread or your last post was made up. Which is it?

No earlier I didn't seek out the details because as I said in the beginning security handles these matters and I have no direct control in proceedings I have to trust in their judgement as they are the professionals.

However when OP made his last post about the transfer only being $50 I thought it seemed very harsh and was worried OP had in fact been wronged. So I did some digging and found what I posted above.

I thought you didn't comment on the nature or processes involved in your security work?

So your prior comments were made with no actual knowledge of the details of the situation and now you are commenting on the details that you led us to believe could not be commented on because they were handled by security only and they never make public statements. Good work sir.

So the story now is that he received a $50 Lock transfer built it up to $1000 and requested a cashout at which point Lock froze the account because he was accused of not sending paypal for the $50 transfer? Is that correct? Why are you involved in this? Someone could send anyone a transfer and then claim later that it was a trade and they didn't pay. Correct me if I'm wrong but Lock pockets the $1000 over a $50 dispute that unless I'm missing something can't be proven. I just would not be involved.

Actually it's 100% proven.

OP was sent Lock funds, that evidence is logged in our backend.

And OP has admitted not sending funds.

OP took the transfer won a tournament and the cashed out the entire roll including the initial transfer.

This isn't the first incarnation of a Freeroll scam and it won't be the last. All players found to be working some form of this scam will have their accounts closed and any future accounts they try to make will be closed.

Thought you don't comment on matters of security?

I believe OP said he was receiving PayPal and was going to send Lock. Is it possible there was just a communication issue between the two parties such as the other guy sent Lock by mistake? Does Lock not have the copies of the chat? Although I appriciate Lock trying to be on top of security matters to me it seems security team may have overreacted in this situation.

With the story here so egregiously wrong here I felt it needed clearing up.



OP did state here that he was receiving Paypal, when in fact he was supposed to send Paypal after receiving Lock funds. He has admitted as such in all of his conversations with the Lock team. He definitely received funds and he admits he has not sent funds.

OK thanks for making things clearer to understand!

There are many different scenarios in which one could receive a Lock transfer and not make a Paypal transfer and still not have scammed anyone. The transfer could have been unsolicited, it could have been a gift or he could have paid by another means to name a few. Unless the accused has actually confessed to scamming it can't be 100% proven. A scam may well have taken place here its just not a situation I believe you should be involved in. Was the $50 returned to the accuser?

edit: To be clear I'm not defending the accused. The inconsistencies between the story hes posted and the facts as you present them are apparent. If your information is correct it would certainly seem that there was a scam.

Bottom line: If Lock has evidence that a player is scamming other players then by all means confiscate their funds and ban them permanently. I don't care if that goes against there official policy on paypal transfers or whatever. I don't want cheaters playing at the same tables as me.

If it's a gift or whatever then the other person doesn't report this guy or contact support about it. Also, loads of trades go on on their site every day, aswell as many of whom Lock won't ever find out how or why the other person gets paid (they just see one end all the time without seeing the other end). It's not exactly like we get many of these posts seeing people get scammed or banned.

mmh

So its a policy to not comment on findings of investigations related to security unless it stands to favour Lock's position/image. Same thing with screenshots. No good unless they support the outcome Lock is in favor of.

When I discovered that the story posted here that everyone was supporting was completely fabricated and pretty much the exact opposite of what really happened I thought it was important to share that information here.

Foolishly I also thought that with new information coming to hand and OP being proven to be doing exactly what they claimed they weren't doing this thread might die. Of course I was completely wrong and a thread that was originally started to help a scammer get funds off of Lock after scamming another player is still running along in a 'Lock is evil' type manner.

If a network where players are rampantly running scams and getting away with it is what you're after then Revolution and Lock just isnt the right place for you. We have no patience for players trying to scam other players.

The main reason I believe that threads like this continue to stay open is because Lock is not paying people in a timely manner. Plus you tend to claim one thing and do another. The other issue is where did the money from the tournament that was won go? Did it go to Lock or all the other players who cashed?

I don't think there is anything wrong with divulging new information and I don't think its hypocritical as another poster above suggested and I understand your reasoning for it.

Without getting into the entire debate again, my personal position on Lock interfering in trades or agreements made with players that involve some outside element off-site still a bad decision for several reasons. Again, it doesn't matter to me who was or wasn't the victim in a case that involves outside participation because the fundamental issue is accuracy and precedence being set that ironically create loopholes for scammers. Hypothetically, if Lock could get 100% of these cases correct then I'd be all for it. In a perfect world we'd always catch these scammers and they'd be punished. This isn't a perfect world; it's an unregulated and highly abused market rife with opportunities to lie, cheat and steal without consequence.

However, if Lock has the ability here to see all proof from inside their operations then great, it's an in-house thing and they should get involved. Just like when someone hacks your account with a key logger and steals your money I expect an investigation and resources with the security department to be utilized. Another example of a potential in-house issue would be a case of chip dumping.

I know (or believe) the "Lock is evil" thing wasn't directed towards me because I never made this exclusively about Lock. Given Lock's horrendous reputation with prior and current issues it's hard for me to have sympathy for Lock when people are ticked off and edgy and attack Lock at any given opportunity, right or wrong. Hopefully you try not to take people's attacks towards you on a personal level and understand that Lock to a large extent is digging it's own grave and you're their scape goat, put here voluntarily to deal with issues with a sense of false hope and from what I can see growing cashout time frames on a month-to-month basis and a dwindling player base. I just hope for Lock's sake that FP technology helps more than hurts and that Lock will be around long enough to see these possible benefits because a long time ago Lock had a lot going for it and now most are just running from it.

I made it clear that my position on this had nothing to do with whether or not the accused actually committed a scam. Its simply a situation in which you can never be privy to 100% of the information and can therefor not make a decision with 100% certainty. That being the case I don't think you should involve yourselves.

As to your other points you should be able to see that it makes you look foolish when you say you can't comment and then you comment. You should also be able to understand that there would be some skepticism in a situation like this given your reputation in handling other situations. Lock stands to benefit from closing the account in a situation you can't always be 100% certain in. In that regard I ask again, was the $50 returned to the accuser?....the tournament winnings redistributed to the other players in the tournament?

My bad. Lock is the only one allowed to run scams.

Here's the thing, Shane. You keep saying you needed to come on here and clear things up because you had the truth and you needed to set the record straight.

But the disconnect you fail to see is that your credibility, via your association with an organization that has a reputation of covering up the truth , has suffered. So you coming here as the company shill saying you have the truth about anything is rather laughable.

Your argument is that since its your belief that Lock is a scam that everything I say is false, which means everything you say must be true. Every crazy theory you support is absolutely correct and even if a theory proven wrong thats fine because Lock is a scam and therefor anything we say isn't true.

My statements are supports by the best information I have available at the time, from real sources from within our company. In this case the data in the backend and the support logs CLEARLY show that the OP was in fact working a scam (OP has of course gone to ground now).

Your statements are supported by posts made by anonymous posters on an internet forum, some of which turn out to be scammers using the message board in one last ditch attempt to get the funds they acquired through a scam off of the site.