So in other words you are just another troll.

I have a suspicion this might be sheer incompetence on J. Lar's part, rather than a combined fuuu to players and carefully schemed plan to defraud. She doesn't quite seem like the MBA-Madoff type. While I'm sure she's aware that people are irate about cashouts or deposits or whatevs (pass the ceviche), I'm not sure she really has a good grasp of what's going down in her own company right now.

She needs to stop sending sock puppets and make a statement she signs herself that clarifies the P2P transfer situation ("reviewed on a case by case basis" = pitchforks), Lock's solvency, and the specific steps they're taking to correct the situation, and absolute rather than relative dates ("n to n+1 weeks" = torches) they will be corrected by.

Also, the reason we're ripping each other's faces off is because we've been waiting for quite a while now with no ETA and no more information than when we started. Not a real morale-booster.

And yes, big ups to M&M.

Hello.

I see a lot of different business P&Ls for my day job, where I get a feel for which businesses make money and which do not.

At first glance it seems to me that given what Lock makes in revenue would be more than enough to cover expenses and pay out the winning players.

I know that gross revenue is more more than cut in half due to affiliate/network commissions, and I know that player pay-out expenses might be more than double the actual amount of the payout because of risky processing.

Still, when you make some simple numeric assumptions, it looks like a solid way to make money.

My question is.... why can't they simply "earn their way" out of a mess like this? It doesn't make sense to me. There's gotta be something more to it than "they are out of money".

Yes they will find 2+2. You mentioned somewhere in your post, let's stand together. I can't get behind this. By turning a blind eye to the situation and allowing people to do what you said here, you only perpetuate the pyramid, that is if you believe it is one. I will not promote Lock Poker.

For the most part, I like what you said, however #4 is an interesting perception that I disagree with.

They pay affiliates a percentage of rake for every new sign up.

They give players crazy rakeback deals and promotions...some of whom I have read (the higher VIP levels)...get more than 100% rakeback.

Processing fees for deposits are probably steep 10%+ I would imagine.

Standard overhead (chat support, email support...IT people...security people...etc..etc) cost money.

They have waaaay too many "Pros" on the payroll...another large expense.

It all adds up to not much profit.

I have no idea why a company would offer to give back so much of the profit margin unless they were planning on scaling it back after they got the market share they were after....that didn't happen...same rakeback/promotions....and slower and slower cashouts

What I meant was, let's not create a widespread alarm across all tables on Lock Poker. It's one thing to show concern and talk about it with people on the site. It's another thing to just spread bad speculation across the entire network of players at every table you play at. And until actual proof is given of why the payouts are slow, it's only going to cause the spread of what is technically still a rumor of "Lock being broke". No way am I implying that I want my withdrawal to come from someone else's deposit, that is far from the type of person I am. But if we go around striking fear in every person playing on the site, then the business itself won't make ANY money in rake and by default won't being paying out withdrawals period. All I'm saying is let's keep our rumors and speculation within the forums. If this ends up being cleared up at all in the near future, you'll only further damage the traffic on the site by spreading bad rumors which could have been avoided by not doing so.

It's also one thing to say to someone at a table "payouts are taking forever". It's another thing to go around saying "Lock is broke". That's all I'm saying. I'm hoping by changing around their guarantees and all that, that they're slowly trying to become more profitable. And therefore targeting to use that profit to payout overdue and new withdrawal requests as opposed to using deposits in a pyramid scheme.

So it seems like Lock has just decided to be done with 2p2?

If you've ever been down South, you'd know that withdrawls are significantly slower than withdrawals.

How much more proof do you want before you stop considering it a rumor? They aren't and haven't been paying players. They've been caught in multiple lies, and now they've gone completely silent. If you're waiting for them to tell you themselves that they are broke, its not going to happen.

Starting to look like it.

I think they may have come to the erroneous conclusion that people were just unhappy with the messenger (Shane) rather than the message. They could have come up with the idea to "replace" Shane with this phony Joseph character, basically say the exact same crap Shane has been spewing, and hoping that would satisfy the 2+2 community and restore their ads.

Of course, the response was overwhelmingly negative (and people fingered Joseph as Shane), so I am assuming they just gave up and realized that they wouldn't be able to fool the masses and get back in good standing. With that realization, they quit.

This is a strong possibility. They must be fully aware of the angst of the people posting here, yet they give us the old middle finger by not having a rep come here after promising they would. Most disappointing.

It seams really pointless for 2p2 to get involved now. People have been asking for some assistance in these threads for months and now when lock has seamed to disappear they pop in and offer some response. A day late and a dollar short if you ask me.

is there any evidence that Lock hasn't just stopped processing cashouts as of 1-2 weeks ago? doesn't look like anyone is reporting cashouts.

I've been waiting 120 days for my withdrawal, trust me I understand the length of this frustration. But how do I know whether or not they're just continually using our money to pay back overdue expenses/loans or if they're just flat out broke (somehow)? Until you have actual numbers, which we will never get, it's speculation.

Proof means something I can swear my life on. If you're willing to swear your life that they're completely broke vs. spending your money elsewhere, you'd be foolish. While the result between the two is the same (in that they don't currently have the money), I'd rather hear that they messed up somewhere along the line with expenses and have been illegally using player deposits to get themselves back on track while they fix their profit margins. If that's the case, at least there's hope. If they're flat out broke or just stealing deposits for themselves, then there is no hope. Again, there is a difference between failing to be profitable as a business, stealing our money for themselves, and being flat out broke as a company (for whatever reason). You can speculate that they're broke, but I doubt they would have been paying out anyone at all in the last couple of months if they were completely and utterly broke.

I think the proof would be in the trip they took , if your in trouble blowing more players fund on a trip is just criminal in my book.

Well, you're just wrong about that. This has happened many times in the past and in each case that I know of, the sites have kept up the charade as long as possible by trickling cash outs here and there and then pointing to them and saying "see, everything is a-ok" just like Lock is doing.

Its not speculation. There is a lot of evidence that indicates that Lock is broke or close to it. There's almost nothing in this world that I'm sure enough about to bet my life on, so that's a pretty dumb metric to use. Besides, the onus to prove anything should fall squarely on the company that owes a lot of people a lot of money, and they seem completely disinterested in doing that. Obviously that's because they can't. You can call it speculation. I call it not being naive.

My request was three months ago (only for 2k), I still haven't received my cash. Shane lied to me and told me my batch was coming 2 weeks ago...This is absolutely absurd... They were the biggest site in the US since the departure of PS and FTP...They could have made so much profit too...

Can you show me instances where Lock has pointed to cash-outs that they've been paying? If Lock was doing that, don't you think they would have used Shane to locate the largest forum posters on 2+2, and then have those people paid so that they spread the good word? I understand what it is you're saying, I just can't say for certain what the issue is (broke vs. failing vs. stealing vs. whatever). That's all I mean by I would want proof before declaring Lock bankrupt. Either way it's horrible. I guess I'm just trying to stay positive in my speculations. I'm certainly not depositing and hardly playing anything besides an occasional tiny tournament for the fun of playing omaha8 tournaments. All I'm saying is unless you have something other than what you think/can speculate from circumstances, then I have a hard time taking that as proof. I understand this isn't a courtroom, and I completely understand your opinion and in all honesty, if I had to put money on their current situation, I might also side with your stance. But I can't sit here and say that because of these events, the company is bankrupt. I'm sorry that's just me.

*Also, then what would be your take on the Portugal trip? A last hoorah with Lock $? Spend it so it doesn't exist? By definition if Lock was bankrupt, it wouldn't have generated any money for Mz. Larson to use for their trip. Unless you'd say she set that money aside from our deposits? Bankrupt to me means they have no money, and are making no money, and cannot pay expenses. But Mat n Mason said Lock paid 2+2 up to date, which means they're keeping the "business" afloat. I'm really open to opinions, so please don't take my posts the wrong way.

Yes, I can show you an instance. Hold on a few minutes. I'll go look for it.

Here you go:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=454

Yeah, it's that time he went:

"here's one"

Pffff. Here's ONE.

Thanks for the follow-up. I guess I meant more of like "stand-out" situations where a thread was made, to make it seem like a big deal that payouts were happening. Y'know, the type of thing where you could point out that they're really trying to put emphasis that people are being paid. I guess I didn't run into those often myself, but thanks for at least enlightening me.

" 3. A new Lock representative will come on here and give a more detailed explanation. "

Uh Mason, doesn't it seem a bit disingenuous for Lock representatives to make that kind of commitment ? Granted its only been four days, but when does the term " stonewalling " finally become Lock's m.o. ?

That's not really Shane's style. He just makes lots and lots of regular posts that aren't true. There's a collection of some here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...79&postcount=1

Lock has probably abandoned 2+2 because they realize that the jig is up, and it's impossible to either convince the public of their lies or get their banners back.

Still, Mason should not delete the Lock forum -- at least not yet -- as it provides a lot of useful information about their shadiness to would-be depositors.

Remember, scammers love silence.