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Old 07-05-2011, 11:55 AM   #1
tclark828
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Casino bonuses

Is there any update on this? I know you said things are going to have to change, and thats fine, but this is a huge deal to me. The extra 20% in RB was the main reason i grinded to black elite VIP, and for them to just disappear really sucks. It seems like lately there are a lot of questions up in the air, and getting some info on them would be nice.
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Old 07-06-2011, 09:17 AM   #2
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Re: Casino bonuses

Quote:
Originally Posted by tclark828 View Post
Is there any update on this? I know you said things are going to have to change, and thats fine, but this is a huge deal to me. The extra 20% in RB was the main reason i grinded to black elite VIP, and for them to just disappear really sucks. It seems like lately there are a lot of questions up in the air, and getting some info on them would be nice.
I'm waiting to hear back on our current proposal right now, hopefully by early next week at the latest.

-Rizen
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:00 PM   #3
tclark828
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Re: Casino bonuses

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Originally Posted by LockRizen View Post
I'm waiting to hear back on our current proposal right now, hopefully by early next week at the latest.

-Rizen
I'm assuming any new deal will be retroactive for the last couple weeks, correct?
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:17 PM   #4
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Re: Casino bonuses

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Originally Posted by tclark828 View Post
I'm assuming any new deal will be retroactive for the last couple weeks, correct?
Yes, whatever goes into place will be retroactive.

-Rizen
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:46 PM   #5
kagame
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Re: Casino bonuses

Could REALLY use that retroactive money right about now...
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Old 07-07-2011, 11:40 AM   #6
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Re: Casino bonuses

The casino bonus was the reason i switched from rakeback to VIP program...
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Old 07-07-2011, 12:46 PM   #7
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Re: Casino bonuses

YUP
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Old 07-07-2011, 12:47 PM   #8
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Re: Casino bonuses

Casino bonus was the only reason not having Ronin was almost OK
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Old 07-07-2011, 12:50 PM   #9
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Re: Casino bonuses

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Originally Posted by MikePez View Post
The casino bonus was the reason i switched from rakeback to VIP program...
+1
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Old 07-07-2011, 01:29 PM   #10
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Re: Casino bonuses

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Originally Posted by MikePez View Post
The casino bonus was the reason i switched from rakeback to VIP program...
+1
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Old 07-10-2011, 01:01 AM   #11
kagame
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Re: Casino bonuses

Any news on this? Pretty much ready to go back to rakeback. But then it will be worse again somehow I am sure...
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Old 07-10-2011, 02:41 AM   #12
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Re: Casino bonuses

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Originally Posted by kagame View Post
Any news on this? Pretty much ready to go back to rakeback. But then it will be worse again somehow I am sure...
I can promise this is a priority that is in the process of being sorted out and that there will be an announcement as soon as we find out what's going to be allowed.
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Old 07-12-2011, 12:34 AM   #13
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Re: Casino bonuses

ok ty
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Old 07-12-2011, 12:35 AM   #14
kagame
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Re: Casino bonuses

I would just like to suggest you mention to whomever makes the final decision that unless the bonus/rb/promo/etc (ie cash) is retroactive many people are going to be extremely upset.
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Old 07-12-2011, 05:33 AM   #15
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Re: Casino bonuses

Not just that...but implementing this stuff in a timely manner so people know what their value is needs to be prioritized. We are now going on about 6 weeks since the new Merge VIP stuff has started, and we STILL don't know what the freaking value of the VIP program is. Pretty darned unacceptable. I understand that this may be more of a Merge-delay thing and out of Lock's hands. But it's completely ridiculous regardless.

If there was such a bad communication on what could or couldn't be done or any confusion remaining about it AT ALL then Merge should have let the skins do it their way for longer until they had it all organized. Lock should still be doing RB + Ronin stuff right now while merge goes through and approves or disapproves whatever proposals and systems.

Merge letting the skins try to interpret the rules, and then taking back the player value and trying to figure it all out AS THEY GO is completely inappropriate. Leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth for the time-being anyway. Rizen (and sometimes Ebes too) has a habit of coming into threads like this and saying something that makes me feel better about the whole thing so that's all good.

But the point still remains that nobody has any idea what value they are getting at Black or Black Elite on Lock. So the decision as to whether to achieve those levels is rather difficult to make.

As I said before, Merge and Lock have every opportunity to win me over as a customer and to even KEEP me after regulation happens in the U.S. with Stars and other sites all available to Americans. But as things stand currently there is just no way I would remain with Merge because they look pretty disorganized and borderline clueless in some of this stuff. Please convince me otherwise Merge. Stop delaying on this VIP value stuff and figure it out already. This nonsense has gone on WAY too long.
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Old 07-12-2011, 10:06 AM   #16
HollywoodHogan
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Re: Casino bonuses

^ +1

yeah, this is a big deal, and I've been checking this thread very frequently hoping for an update. I know you Lock reps are trying to find out; thank you for your efforts.
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Old 07-12-2011, 11:50 AM   #17
tclark828
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Re: Casino bonuses

Pretty much agree with everything that Bob said. This whole VIP thing has been a total mess from the beginning. I grinded quite a bit extra at the end of last month to reach black elite, but wont be doing the same this month unless things change in the next couple of days. Fwiw i think Merge has handled this horribly, and the players are the ones left suffering. Again it feels like Merge's attitude it F the players, theres really no other choices.
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Old 07-12-2011, 03:31 PM   #18
LockRizen
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Re: Casino bonuses

FYI - I had another discussion with the appropriate people regarding the casino bonuses. The details are still subject to change, but it should be finalized and out soon. The really simple version is that the amount of the rewards will stay the same, they will be rewarded retroactively, but there are now some play through requirements on the casino side before you can withdraw the money or move it to the poker side. I don't have all the details on everything yet.

It's definitely going to diminish the value, to what extent I have no idea, but the network is insisting we put play through requirements on them so it is a true 'casino bonus' and not just cash or a way to give extra cash back.

-Rizen
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Old 07-12-2011, 03:41 PM   #19
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Re: Casino bonuses

Quote:
Originally Posted by LockRizen View Post
there are now some play through requirements on the casino side before you can withdraw the money or move it to the poker side
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A5t5_O8hdA#t=0m10s

Really glad I never switched from RB right now. Obviously this is an improvement over not having a bonus... but the casino side play through requirements should be EXTREMELY low for this to even be considered a bonus.
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Old 07-12-2011, 04:39 PM   #20
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Re: Casino bonuses

Hopefully it will be super-duper low on the play-through.

I'm glad they appear to be getting this straightened out and that the value will end up hopefully being closeish to what we were previously expecting.

If it ends up being a 25x play-through or something crazy I'll be kind of annoyed. If it's only 3x play-through or something reasonable then I guess I'll look forward to donking it up at blackjack and trying to run-up my winnings.

I guess this could be an issue for the degens who have casino-game problems who have to delete the icon so as not to click it or whatever their compulsion with that stuff is. But it seems Merge is forcing the issue here and I doubt there will be many other options besides "play it or you don't get it."

Rizen - Know I've been harsh in a few posts lately but I also like the fact that I know you "get it" and don't think I'm coming from nowhere with these observations. Thanks again for the updates and all you do.
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Old 07-12-2011, 05:01 PM   #21
Dying Actors
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Re: Casino bonuses

Quote:
Originally Posted by MicroBob View Post
Hopefully it will be super-duper low on the play-through.

I'm glad they appear to be getting this straightened out and that the value will end up hopefully being closeish to what we were previously expecting.

If it ends up being a 25x play-through or something crazy I'll be kind of annoyed. If it's only 3x play-through or something reasonable then I guess I'll look forward to donking it up at blackjack and trying to run-up my winnings.

I guess this could be an issue for the degens who have casino-game problems who have to delete the icon so as not to click it or whatever their compulsion with that stuff is. But it seems Merge is forcing the issue here and I doubt there will be many other options besides "play it or you don't get it."

Rizen - Know I've been harsh in a few posts lately but I also like the fact that I know you "get it" and don't think I'm coming from nowhere with these observations. Thanks again for the updates and all you do.
so assuming a play through...whats the fastest way to get through without losing too much to the vig. i never play casino games.
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Old 07-12-2011, 05:05 PM   #22
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Re: Casino bonuses

ugh, play through at the casino

I don't know how to play any casino games in a +ev fashion, and I don't care to learn to. I stay away from non-poker gambling. I guess I'll have to learn some basic blackjack strat or something, sigh. I won't feel I know what I'm doing and even worse there's a great chance I lose most or all of that 'bonus'. The last part really sucks esp. if I'm gonna be losing most of the benefit. I don't trust internet blackjack either.

edit: I saw there's Bingo, but it's not available. Please get that running and then it won't be the worst thing ever.
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Old 07-12-2011, 05:21 PM   #23
Dying Actors
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Re: Casino bonuses

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Originally Posted by HollywoodHogan View Post
ugh, play through at the casino

I don't know how to play any casino games in a +ev fashion, and I don't care to learn to. I stay away from non-poker gambling. I guess I'll have to learn some basic blackjack strat or something, sigh. I won't feel I know what I'm doing and even worse there's a great chance I lose most or all of that 'bonus'. The last part really sucks esp. if I'm gonna be losing most of the benefit. I don't trust internet blackjack either.

edit: I saw there's Bingo, but it's not available. Please get that running and then it won't be the worst thing ever.
pretty sure there is no way to be +EV in any casino game. although i would gladly be wrong
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Old 07-12-2011, 05:39 PM   #24
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Re: Casino bonuses

Here ya go guys, get to crackin on them table game strategies: http://wizardofodds.com/
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:00 PM   #25
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Re: Casino bonuses

If you play blackjack in a remotely passable fashion (kind of close to decent strategy) you are probably about -3%. It will be closer to -2% probably for me who has some sort of clue what they are doing....probably -1.5% is my guess. Roulette is -5.26% but there is also no way for you to screw that up one way or the other. It will always be 5.26 no matter what you do.

If you are -3% at blackjack that means:
If you get a $100 Black level bonus and you have a 3x play-through requirement then you have to bet a total of $300 for the money to be released. This would be 60 consecutive bets of $5 for example. And 3% of $300 is -$9 so that would be your EV for that stretch. On average you should walk away with $291. Obviously a very large standard deviation here though. you can run terribly and bust it out and come away with nothing. Or you can run hot and end up with $591 or something.

Obviously if it's a 20x play-through requirement or something sucky then that makes all these numbers worse and will also make the whole thing take longer.

Also, fwiw, there is no advantage in the long-run mathematically to betting small and drawing it out. If I get $100 as a bonus I might just make a series of $50 bets just to get it over with and move on. If I bust then it will be fast and I can get back to the games. And if I win then it's a quick boost to the bonus. If I'm getting $100 bonuses time after time after time then it should all even out pretty much eventually. Of course, there is the risk that I could run cold on my series of $50 bets and bust out a few times in a row and not get any of the casino bonus cash for 6 weeks or something if I do it that way. Increased variance yada yada yada,
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