It isn't about me, Microbob for example probably hasn't missed a level, but still agree the low volume shouldn't be getting zero.

How about you ask that last question to the entire site. Some of those players that are now not getting the Ronin payments are losing 20%.

Give me a second and I'll post back.

Shaner, put me in that group of people that wondered how you were giving away too much. I personally think the site from a financial point of view is a mess. But it is a mess brought on by Lock. But the answer wasn't to throw the recreational players under the bus.

You and several others have used the phrase "rake chase". The conversation would be less confusing if standard terms were used. I'm under the impression CHASE is used for individual rakes promos and RACE is used for competition rake promos...

Before this month since there were actually no limits on the levels, Ronin was an individual rake CHASE instead of a competition rake RACE. Get it back to a chase and tweak the numbers so you are "not giving away the house".

I seriously have to call bull **** on how Lock for over a year was ready willing and able to run Ronin without limits but now can't. Maybe just maybe Ronin as a chase wasn't the problem but overpaying for Cake or other things is the problem.

Rake races all over have ALWAYS been like this. I remember winning 2k$ on 1st payout raking somewhere around 8000 in a month time, that's 25% from a rake race. This same rake race would give like 10$ for people raking 1000$, that's only 1% return. You see this ALL the time in rake races, i just don't get how people are upset about this now, it really is because people got spoiled at first by not enforcing the limits.

I will stand by it: return is still insane on Lock, and rake races have always, and probably will always be like this: reward the top rakers the most, and the smaller rakers get a little something aswell.

The only thing i guess is that if you start too late in the month, you will indeed miss out on that little something aswell, but boohoo losing out on 5% return or whatever (in comparison to most other site's rake races that is) when you're still getting much more turn in other forms.

Edit: done a random google search for some rake race results (sorry if it's disallowed to link to cometition's rake races ) but just to prove my point (not sure if i rly need to prove my point, people should know this anyway) but here is a rake race result: http://www.rakeback.com/promotions/b...rakeback-1836/

Notice how #1 gets paid 1000$, a 10% return for his volume. Spot 2 gets 600$, a 6% return for his volume. Spot 25 gets 100$, a 3,1% return for his volume. Spot 75 gets 25$, a 1.6% return for his volume.

Point made? Sites want to reward their highest volume players more, because the truth is, yes they're indeed using the service more, but there is a point where you're paying exponentially much to a poker site for the service they're providing, giving some of it back is only fair. I had months where i paid thousands of $'s in rake to a poker site - is it worth it for the service they're providing? Running a server with a simple client on it, MMO games for example charge 13$ a month for that with much more sophisticated software, servers and customer support. I know it's different: you can make money off this after all, but still. It's really only logical to give a more percentage return to someone who's paying loads in real $'s.

If its going to be like this from now on, can u at least make it so rakeback players can generate thr same rake as VIP players and get the same prize?

McC, no one is disagreeing that rake RACES are run this way. But dude will you at least acknowledge that Ronin was a race CHASE before this month? I could link to my old affliate rake CHASE for Merge's Poker Host. You seemed to think that only rake RACES are doable and high returning. You haven't missed a level and are getting a great return. But are you willing to acknowledge that the people missing levels just took a 20%+ RB hit? And if you aren't willing to see the other side of the coin please don't complain in the future if you ever take a 20%+ RB hit.

Ok so it's semantics whether they want it to be a rake chase or rake race, obviously they've chosen for rake race.

Yes, the people who are missing levels took a 20%+ RB hit, i will indeed acknowledge that. I just can't imagine myself whining about this when i'm still getting like 80% return without this. I really know i won't be complaining about a 20% RB hit in the future, i think the current RB is simply insane.

assuming the last 7 levels were actually budgeted for (cuz it would be a very safe bet assuming no one achieves those levels), those could definitely be removed to make the first few levels practically unlimited.

Chasing 1.20 is rather pointless. The only frustrating thing personally is that the mid levels fill pretty quick and missing the first couple days of the month really put you behind the 8 ball.... Would be cool maybe if unreached levels were paid out as bonus spots to smaller levels....

but thats what i said =(

This makes no sense whatsoever. Ofcourse they're budgetted. If people pay for the level requirement first.

By doing what you're saying you're in no way redistributing the money (yes, you read that right) instead, you're injecting MORE money (from THEIR pockets) - why would they want to do that when they're already giving away insanely much?

i assume the people who theoretically make the top tier levels already have a multiple deposit bonuses stacked and were smart enough to not take rakeback but take vip blackelite. too lazy to calc at which point of ronin is lock losing money to players who play high volume but i think at those levels its for sure a lost for lock. so yes they have to budget losses for mid to high ronin levels atleast with their current reward scheme.

i also assume they did not budget for it/took a smart gamble cuz its almost physically impossible to achieve, not enough games 24/7, you would probably go broke playing so bad trying to get the last level, etc.

assuming they budgetted for losses for those high levels, then the lost there could be removed to fund the lower levels.

and yes these budgeted losses never get realized because of hte reasons i stated above for the last levels. but they were budgeted. which means they are ok with the lost. which means its money that can be injected into the first few levels to entice more rec players, fish to play at lock. its injecting money they already budgeted to be lost. i really think they didnt budget it tho as i wouldn't lol...


i may be wrong tho. anything wrong with my thinking?

you also have to realize that their breakeven point/point where they gain no revenue from a player is not at 100 perc rakeback. costs must be associated with support personnel, website design team, blackops lolusa cashout team, etc. the breakeven point is like at 90%. so the level at which ronin is a true lost to them is even lower.

I find this discussion very interesting. I am a recreational player (low volume) and I will continue to play on Lock for it's amazing value. 36% RB, cash for points, and deposit bonuses added together are more generous than any other site. They could remove Ronin completely and almost everyone would still play. It is an extra value for the heavy grinders and I don't mind one bit being excluded from that.

You had PREVIOUSLY given the grace period where "everyone got a little more."

And now: "its a genuine race."


This means it is NOT the same as the past months. Period.

You should not be saying that it is going to be the same when it is actually changing...as in, the grace period is being removed.

It would have been completely fine to say, "Ronin is staying for the upcoming month. One change to the promotion is that we will now be enforcing the max-number of players limits. So far, we have not done that. We will be adding a page on our website that will update everyone as to how many players have reached which level so that everyone knows. This will begin with the start of the new Ronin promo on August 1."


See? Simple. And lets everyone know. Instead of telling them that it is going to continue the exact same way as before when, actually, it isn't.


I don't think this is a giant deal or anything. I'm pretty forgiving of Lock mis-speaking on their own promos as are a lot of others I believe. But I do think you can learn from this. You just need to be careful on saying things such as it being the exact same when Lock had actually already decided on a change.

I seriously can't believe I need to directly advance the argument that "making a change means it is not exactly the same."

But you seem to actually be arguing, "we did keep it the same....all we did was make a change."

So do I have to do something on the site to sign up for 36% rakeback instead of VIP? I can't seem to find the option to switch.

email Shane or Rizen, think they can help

If you just email me your details I can take care of this for you.

Shane, any chance for clarification on the Lock Lotto Extreme promotion? Is it supposed to still be running as it is advertised on the web site? Specifically wondering about the monthly prize. As far as I know, the last award was for the month of April.

Three questions:

1. Where can I follow my own THEFUTURE bonus situation?
2. Where can I find some information about the new depositors freeroll? I cant find anything on lock homepage.
3. How do I qualify for the 110 seats to the 110K tournament, Is it for everybody? any information somewhere?

It is most likely that we will continue Ronin or replace Ronin with another new rake chase. We may however change this plan and stop running it.


I was told this morning it was ran but I check the twitter feed and the winner wanst announced so I have sought clarification on this.


1. You can check your bonus progress here: https://admin.lockpoker.eu/reports/bonuses
2. New depositors freerolls were a Merge promotion so we no longer have them
3. The 110 seats to the 110K is open to all players.

I'm a recreational player. I've not played online for some time because of the uncertainties with the sites.

I've been wanting to play online for the last month and I started looking at the sites available to US players.

Frankly after reading the 2+2 threads for the US facing sites I'm more uncertain than ever.

I don't care as much about ronin or rakeback as I do about the types of games available. Small buyin tournaments without rebuys, and low min buy ins for ring games.

While I understand that payouts are difficult to US players I would expect there to be good communication between the site and the player about the transaction status.

I don't mind losing money to a better player however I think huds are an unfair advantage. I believe the sites should either display that a player is using a bud or have some tables where they are not allowed.

Just some suggestions from a recreational fish ....

Any word on when the Lock Lotto grand prize (Ducati) is being distributed for July?

yeah seriously i got my m1 but no bike so ill take it

that feeling when you rake over $25 every day but took Aug. 1st and 2nd off

Promos are great but they are pointless if you can't cashout. Fix your cashout issues(Non US cashouts should not take longer than 3 days) even if it means dropping Ronin and/or other promos.

You still haven't heard anything about this?