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** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD ** ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

09-16-2011 , 06:16 AM
Searching '${' apparently breaks Google search by some kind of Javascript injection. From here and here.
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09-16-2011 , 08:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redCashion
Btw, what is your software Gull?
Cool thanks for the advice very useful. I'll bear it in mind in the future. Our software is http://www.scirra.com , it's a game making program
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09-16-2011 , 05:34 PM
Am I late in discovering this site: http://www.chromeexperiments.com/webgl?

webgl + ajax (for webgames) = amazingness? or buggy/too soon?
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09-17-2011 , 12:18 AM
I have zero experience in web design, graphic design, database management, programming, scripting, etc., and I have this idea for a website and I really want to make it happen.

Am I being incredibly naive to think I can just learn everything myself and have the final site up and running in less than 18 months?

It's a pretty heavy idea. The necessary stuff would include:

-A ton of graphic design
-User login system
-Databases of ongoing user-input data
-Automatically generated graphs and charts drawing from database information
-A store
-The ability to accept payment for user sign-up fees, subscriptions, and store purchases (credit card processing)

I just have no concept of how long these kinds of projects take. How much work do you think went into something like PokerTableRatings, for example? One person? Ten people? A year? Two?
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09-17-2011 , 12:45 AM
You are not naive and you can do it if it matters that much to you. F the haters.
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09-17-2011 , 12:51 AM
My job recently hired a web guy. I'm on the think tank for this, and I am stuck because I know way more than him, but I can't really tell everyone at the table that because you know, I don't want to get stuck with his job (lol).

It went like this:

We would like something where if you bring up cups, and you bring up red, you see all the red cups. Amazon has that, why can't we?

"I can't do that. That's really hard."

Well, okay, he is working at a company attempting to build a business website. The people that did the site before did a horrible job, rendering the site nearly useless, and we don't know if we can get the files for the database and PHP.

So, while were all debating the options, I asked the management if they had any idea how long it would take the web guy to build a new database and back-end.

They didn't, obv.

"I don't do databases."

wtf?

"I don't do any back-end; that's not my thing: no PHP, no databases."

So what would you use.

exact quote: "I'd probably use Jooma! or Drupal."

Yes, we have a web guy who thinks he can build a dynamic business site with front-end users and MVC-type doodads without knowing how to program PHP or SQL. Oh, and of course he is going to create a fast site with Joomla!

I have to figure out how to make the management see what he is without making myself look bad, without earning myself a new job, and without making me look like an *******.

Any ideas?

2nd edit: I was so appalled I forgot to ask if he only did CSS and HTML, you know: without knowing any javaScript.

Last edited by daveT; 09-17-2011 at 12:54 AM. Reason: Actually, we already know we can't get the PHP or SQL files, because of some lamo bs I don't care to understand.
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09-17-2011 , 02:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChazDazzle
You are not naive and you can do it if it matters that much to you. F the haters.
That kinda sounds like something I'd say to a new player in Beginners forum that I know is completely hopeless
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09-17-2011 , 02:56 AM
I have a function with 26lines of code in Python.

How bad is that? I refactored, simplified, and tore the hell out of it, but it won't break down much further, I don't think.
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09-17-2011 , 03:41 AM
If you don't want to work on it, keep quiet.
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09-17-2011 , 08:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveT
I have a function with 26lines of code in Python.

How bad is that? I refactored, simplified, and tore the hell out of it, but it won't break down much further, I don't think.
I have many functions that are over 26 lines of code because I don't always have time to refactor them (or even think the benefit is worth it to do it).

So, my answer is: it's not that bad. There's almost certainly a way to break it down further. It's probably not worth it.

If you're interested in the debate/exercise you could probably post it in this thread and we'll argue a bunch over almost meaningless stuff.
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09-17-2011 , 08:16 AM
# of lines in a function is a really bad way to measure how good a function is. I have lots of functions over 26 lines because I just do!
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09-17-2011 , 10:08 AM
26 lines is a completely standard function length. Don't count lines of code - count "things it does". The answer to the second question should be "one", always.

@aa4595 You most likely can't learn everything and produce that website in 18 months. It's a lot to learn starting from scratch.

@Dave: There's no reason he couldn't build the website you describe in Drupal (and probably Joomla, though i know nothing about it) and have it be reasonably fast. He could probably even build it (or most of it) with existing modules without having to write any code.
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09-17-2011 , 10:21 AM
@Dave did your company employ this guy before finding out what he can/can't do?!
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09-17-2011 , 11:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by *******
That kinda sounds like something I'd say to a new player in Beginners forum that I know is completely hopeless
True, but in this case I was serious. Find a partner though, someone who is just as dedicated and obsessive as you (i'm assuming here that you are dedicated and obsessive). While it may not be as hard as everyone makes it out to be, it is a lot of work.
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09-17-2011 , 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveT
I have a function with 26lines of code in Python.

How bad is that? I refactored, simplified, and tore the hell out of it, but it won't break down much further, I don't think.
post it. i am inclined to think that it can be broken down further than you think.
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09-17-2011 , 01:38 PM
ZOMG!!!! i hope you are all ready for....

THE SICKEST BRAG YOU'VE EVER SEEN. Buckle up, so you won't be blown out of your desk chair by the force of the raw envy about to overwhelm your soul:

Spoiler:
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09-17-2011 , 01:42 PM
Nice one, it's a useful script
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09-17-2011 , 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjshabado

If you're interested in the debate/exercise you could probably post it in this thread and we'll argue a bunch over almost meaningless stuff.

Here's the code in question:

The input is a list of tuples.

[('d', 4), ('d', 1), ('d', 8), ('c', 2), ('d', 7), ('h', 4), ('s', 6)]

The code breaks apart the tuples into ranks and suits.

['d', 'd', 'd', 'c', 'd', 'h', 's']
[1, 2, 4, 4, 6, 7, 8]

Then weighs the hands according to rank.

This particular block of code needs a lot of fixing (and will become longer) but that's okay since I'm more concerned about getting the routed out functions correct so they don't trip over each other (the twoPair and fullHouse is bad, I know). The prints will route to functions later on.

I also forgot to account for ex: straight vs straight who has the highest straight, so I have to add in the high-card functions. They way I'll do this is have the winning hand returned to this function if there is a True, else return the whole hand:

Code:
def otherFun(hand)
if x == True:
    return True, hand[:-2]
return False, hand
Actually, I'm kind of ashamed of this block of code, it's much messier than the rest of the program, but I think its okay since it is still being built.

Anyways, there should be room to debate this one.

Code:
def evalHand(board):
    print(board)
    suits = []
    ranks = []
    for i in board:
        suits.append(i[0])
        ranks.append(i[1])
    print(suits)
    print(sorted(ranks))
    boolQuad = quads(ranks)
    if boolQuad == True:
        print('quads')
    #boolFull = full(ranks)
    boolFlush = flush(suits)
    if boolFlush == True:
        boolStraight = straight(ranks)
        if boolStraight == True:
            print('straigh flush')
        print('flush')
    boolStraight = straight(ranks)
    if boolStraight == True:
        print('straight')
    boolTriple = triple(ranks)
    if boolTriple == True:
        if boolPair == True:
            print('full house')
        print('three of a kind')
    boolPair = pair(ranks)
    if boolPair == True:
##        if boolPair == True:
##            print('two pair')
        print('one pair')
    boolHighCard = highCard(ranks)
    print(boolHighCard, ' high')
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09-17-2011 , 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurvan

@Dave: There's no reason he couldn't build the website you describe in Drupal (and probably Joomla, though i know nothing about it) and have it be reasonably fast. He could probably even build it (or most of it) with existing modules without having to write any code.
Okay, so how do I make sure he can do this is Joomla/Drupal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gullanian
@Dave did your company employ this guy before finding out what he can/can't do?!
Of course. The company isn't programmers
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09-17-2011 , 02:48 PM
dave,

1. Use whitespace to separate your concepts

2. You always write:

Code:
    
boolStraight = straight(ranks)
    if boolStraight == True:
when it's clearer and more concise to write:

Code:
if straight(ranks):
If you want to visually suggest the bool type just name your methods using the "isXXX" convention, like "isStraight()".

Some larger design issues to consider:

1. You are mixing "presentation" and "logic" here. This method should probably return the name of the hand that you are printing, and the client code should print it.

2. Probably the most importatn thing. Your code is essentially checking a list of conditions in order, and returning the first one that matches. You should leverage python's functional programming abilities to accomplis this. It's been a while since I've done any python, so this is going to be psuedocode, but it should be clear enough. Rewrite the whole function in a few lines like this:

Code:
handCheckers = [quads, flush, straight, etc]
foreach (checker in handCheckers)
  if (checker(ranks, suits))
    return checker.name;
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09-17-2011 , 05:55 PM
gaming mouse is spitting the hot fire.
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09-17-2011 , 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveT
Okay, so how do I make sure he can do this is Joomla/Drupal?
Serious question: is that your job? Do you know enough about programming to adequately judge somebody else's skill?
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09-17-2011 , 08:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurvan
Serious question: is that your job? Do you know enough about programming to adequately judge somebody else's skill?
Zurvan,

While I agree in theory he might be able to build the thing in Joomla with no backend knowledge, I think it is a red flag and Dave is probably right to be concerned. Given just the info we have, I'd say it's like 80-85% this is a disaster in the making. Part of my certainty stems from his use of the phrase "that's not my thing."
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09-17-2011 , 11:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChazDazzle
True, but in this case I was serious. Find a partner though, someone who is just as dedicated and obsessive as you (i'm assuming here that you are dedicated and obsessive). While it may not be as hard as everyone makes it out to be, it is a lot of work.
The problem I'm grappling with is I think it's a multi-million dollar idea, and nobody else is doing it right now, there would be zero direct competitors. I really think it's one of those "why didn't anyone else think of that?" ideas.

I'd happily pay $50k to have the site developed for me, but I'm afraid if I give the idea to anybody for them to develop, the future success of the product would be so obvious that it'd be like I was asking them to make me a multi-million dollar business for 50k, and they'd just end up keeping the product for themselves.

This is also a problem when taking a partner. The only thing I have is the idea, and once I give that up I'd be completely unnecessary to making the business happen, because I know nothing about web development or e-commerce.

So right now I'm trying to think about how I could make it happen entirely myself, or if there would be some way to break the project into smaller pieces so I could have different people develop each piece for me who don't communicate with each other, and whether that could be done without hurting the final product.

Or maybe some combination of both. If I was going to develop the website myself, what portions of development do you think I could pass off to someone more experienced, and have them be able to fulfill that obligation without having to see or know anything about the rest of the site?

This is all I've been thinking about for days now. I've had tons of business ideas and this is the first one that I've become fixated on like this, I've never felt so certain that something would be successful. I can barely sleep.

I'm considering just sitting on poker money and spending the next two years of my life developing this website from nothing 80 hours/week, just because I don't know how else to retain full ownership of it.
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09-17-2011 , 11:36 PM
Pretty silly fear. If you want to be really safe, hire a big name American firm and have them sign some agreement before they start work. But I doubt it's even necessary, no matter how good your idea is. If you really believe in your idea, and have 50K to spend, just pay some and have the whole thing done in a few months.
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