At least I figured out the ssh key thing. Of course, they wanted the ssh key off the local machine. Copy/pasted the information and I can still log into the server, so that is good.

Still can't get the deploy to work. Sometimes I get a message about not being a git repository or not having the creds and other times I see a cursor stuck in the middle of nowhere.

Yes, I can now see how Heroku's pricing is absolutely reasonable at this point. Honestly, I've found that the answers to the issues are all head-slapping simple once you figure it out, but it is a never-ending cycle and gets a bit tiresome after a while.

Well, they are still a ripoff but yes, it makes sense. As you said, the really infuriating thing is that all this stuff you waste 5 hours on is stuff that, once you get it, takes 5 mins.

Speaking of the ripoff that heroku is, I host a small app on them with 2 dynos for $30/mo, which is fine, whatever. I now have a need to get a static IP address for that app. Heroku, in typical (brilliant|evil) heroku fashion, doesn't offer static IPs for $5 or $10 mo like most hosts. No, in heroku land a static IP is an "addon" service with its very own name (proximo!), and you pay for your static IP not per month but per request.

What if you want a static IP for unlimited requests, you ask?

No problem! $1,250 / mo!

https://addons.heroku.com/proximo

It won't even take 5 minutes because once you do it and you're happy with the result you can script the entire process. Then spinning up a new instance is basically instant on your part. The time spent is waiting for the server to automatically run commands.

dave, you might want to skim this:
http://plusbryan.com/my-first-5-minu...-linux-servers

yeah we suggested vagrant weeks ago but dave likes to do everything the hard way.


g_m,

what need could you have for static IPs that isn't solved by dynamic DNS (which surely heroku must provide, esp if they're not providing static IPs)?

our app, which runs on a tablet, is being deployed in a chain store that has a firewall for the internal wifi we'll be connecting through. the firewall apparently needs specific IP addresses which it adds to its exception list. we'd prefer if they could just add our url which would avoid the whole problem, but we no control over and little access to their tech team, and so far specific IP exception is all that they've offered to do.

:\

you could consider getting a single static IP and using that as a load balancer/proxy to your other app instances. a little cheaper at least (+ gives you some flexibility).

anyway gl time for FOOOOTBAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLL

I read that yesterday and I was like... sigh. But yeah, I'll do it too.

Everything I saw said you have to download virtual-box, which means I would have to download virtual-box in my Virtual Box, and that didn't sound like a good thing.

Regardless, considering the bad info left and right on every single step (hell, even digital ocean got useradd wrong), I'm skeptical that using vagrant would make life rosy. I'm even skeptical of the virtual-box install claim.

Someone has to support the free site I am running...

How do you circumvent the database data limits on your plan?

not sure what you mean, but i don't know much about heroku db plans and this particular app doesn't have a db

In the Heroku evil fashion, they don't really say what the limits are until you dive deep into their documentation. At first, you are like, oh, 10k rows for free or 1M rows for $10, not a problem:

https://www.heroku.com/pricing

And then this isn't even possible to find w/o Google-fu:

https://blog.heroku.com/archives/201...and_row_limits

and find a 10k row/5mb limit. Yes, I get that you shouldn't be running BLOBs on the free tier but how fast can 5mb be passed on 1M rows? It makes me wonder what kind of unknown prices and limits would present themselves later, and I'm not in the mood to spend $60/month to find out. I guess the argument is that if you really need 1M rows, you probably need to scale up a few dynos and get a better db with cache, but I don't know how all this works. I still can't tell from the above if the databases are 0mb of cache, but this seems to suggest there is none:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1...caching-on-now

I get it, I'm probably pre-optimizing. I also want to host 2, maybe 3 sites on one server, and I don't want to pay for 3x dynos, 2x databases, etc.

yep. for a company that sells itself on freeing you from the complexities of admining your own server, they have managed to create wondrously labyrinthine pricing structure and feature set (dynos and workers!?!). i find their whole approach off-putting and don't understand the love developers heap on them, even though i do see the usefulness of the service.

What bothers me the most is that Heroku has an illusory system and a real system and their documentation doesn't seem to do well to define what is and what isn't. Look no further than the Rap Genius controversy. I didn't follow it too closely, but what I've seen of it, Rap Genius had a reasonable expectation of what they thought they were getting that was in stark contrast to what they actually were getting. Sure, Heroku apologized for not documenting this, but I don't buy it. This is their bread and butter and there should be no ambiguity in how their processes work and there should be no misleading prices or descriptions of products, especially their core dyno and scaling products. I guess Rap Genius is stuck with Heroku now, but man, that misconception must have cost a ton of money. It is telling that they checked this out in the first place.

I think Heroku is fine for solo developers looking to launch up their own little app. This is all a huge cost / benefit analysis. For example, if I was someone earning $75/hr, I would be more than happy to spend off the extra cash so I can ship more features, since that is where my value is. For my own case, I could argue that I "spent" about 15 hours so far, but if I use my current real-job pay as a metric, I'm still ahead of the curve. If I use my developer-pay as a metric, then I'm winning even if this takes me 5 years.

A tad off-topic, but I've come to the conclusion that "full-stack" developer is an absurd notion. I can definitely see the appeal of using javascript / Node.js, RoR / Coffeescript, or any other combo.

I think I'm aiming for about a half-stack.

Reading their pricing page, I can see where the problem is. They do declare that the "Starter Databases" are designed for "trial, development, testing, and basic usage" (bold added).

They're trying to get you hooked by glossing over the designed limitations of the Basic plan. No freaking way the leap from Basic to Crane is accidental.

Rackspace 4 Life.

Goodness gracious. The answer was staring at me in the face the entire time. I have a bad habit of not reading error messages and getting impatient and pressing ^C. Turns out that the default port on my local machine didn't point to the port on the server.

fml.

Just did a startup weekend in Denver. There were probably 60 people there, and about 25 people pitched ideas. You pick the best ones, split off into groups, and spend the whole weekend validating/refining the idea, and making an mvp. Then there are judges and prizes for the best pitch/product.

It was actually amazing to see some of the stuff that evolved from the really crappy ideas that got pitched initially. It's also a great way to meet some fun people and really get to know them over one weekend.

Would recommend. Also, the $75 or $100 price tag is nothing considering you get a ton of free food/beer and potentially a lot of value in the prizes they give out at the end... The winning team got a bunch of free coworking space, and $2500 in free legal, and a few other things. Pretty cool.

Joining the conversation a bit late, but IMO heroku is a massive rip-off. Yes, sysadmin work can be time consuming, but paying someone to do your sysadmin work will be way (way) less than using heroku.

(on a side note, if anyone has any sysadmin questions feel free to PM me. Happy to offer advice & pointers. I am not a sysadmin by trade, but host all of my own apps on VPS servers).

If I were to implement the ideas I have (0 time so just a hypothetical) right now I'd be limited to non-US providers anyways which is an interesting "problem".

In before multimillion "like Heroku but not a ripoff with crazy names+hosted in a country with sensible privacy laws"

Funny, about 5-6 weeks ago I had to spin up a server and use terminal to create an ssh key, then install an open-source CMS distro and use github to pull it down and create a few pages and push it back it to the server to show I was capable of setting it up a new infrastructure, deloying a CMS and then editing it using github for version control.

Literally everything I just mentioned, including terminal, I was using for the first time. Took 1 1/2 hrs start to finish, but I actually found the work to be pretty enjoyable.

Probably because I am mostly on the phone all day and that **** can get boring.

FWIW I've been trying out Google AppEngine lately and I'm very impressed with how quick and easy it is to get up and running. If you're writing in one of the supported languages (Python, Java, PHP), I would definitely recommend checking it out as an alternative to Heroku (or managing your own server, loool daveT).

So, a friend called me and asked me if getting a C++ Certification would be a good thing for him to get a job. I guess it is a one-year course.

I told him I wouldn't think so, but it wouldn't exactly hurt to learn C++, but he may want to look into getting into Python when he's done. I also told him that my impression is that C++ programmers are generally hard-core and the chances of getting a job in using C++ with no CS training is probably close to nil, though certainly not impossible, and from what I've read and seen, most certifications are sort of laughed at.

So, what of it? Is this guy beating a dead tree? He's only two weeks in and he says it is super easy and nothing but simple math so far. Here's to hoping he is screaming for mercy next month.

the problem with certifications is that no one who is any good needs one, and no one who needs one is any good.

I'm sorry, how much does it cost to host multiple sites again?