Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Programming Discussions about computer programming

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-16-2018, 03:49 AM   #35251
suzzer99
Save the Cheerleader, Save the World
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on top of the bell curve
Posts: 92,472
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Not the same thing. Today's webdev is just about learning more tools to build cool stuff. Many times it's a win-win for everyone. It's not about continuing to make a profit in a zero-sum game with a shrinking prize pool, shrinking losing player pool, and much lower if any frequent player incentives.

I feel pretty confident gramps was chasing every profitable game out there. I know he was playing a ton of the super turbos - which were printing money for a bit until they killed off the fish.

Let's just say you need a supercomputer to model GTO scenarios just to keep up with your pro vs. pro interactions, or you probably won't be profitable at SNGs these days.

Note: maybe I'm wrong and gramps is a big fish. But he was always hugely profitable back in the day and was definitely the best coach I had. My coaching deal with him was pretty funny in that it was percentage-based and I ran like God (18%) over our 1000 SNG deal. I still wonder if I played my best because I knew he was watching.
suzzer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2018, 04:09 AM   #35252
_dave_
_Pooh_Bah_
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UK (or what remains of it)
Posts: 12,978
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Let's just say you need a supercomputer to model GTO scenarios just to keep up with your pro vs. pro interactions, or you probably won't be profitable at SNGs these days.
See, this. The reality is the opposite. For anyone below $100 spins (and maybe even there), they're likely better off completely ignoring GTO lest it give you stupid ideas, and instead focus on extracting value.

Now, if you're playing in 5reg 6-max hyper sngs, things may be quite different. But that's not where the money is.

That is not to say there is no value in GTO solvers, because there absolutely is.
_dave_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2018, 04:23 AM   #35253
suzzer99
Save the Cheerleader, Save the World
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on top of the bell curve
Posts: 92,472
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

From what I gathered - GTO is only for pro vs. pro - early SNG stuff. Like should I raise 2.6BB from the hijack (could be any position but later seems more GTO centric), or 2.2BB - given my cards and who is sitting in button and the blinds. Which literally I didn't even think mattered.

The fact that margins are so thin now that apparently that stuff does matter is why I was scared off. Maybe I interpreted it all wrong.

I remember this one SNG reg who used to always raise 2.1 BB, back when everyone raised 3BB or 2.5BB. It pissed me off so much, I always played back at him throughout the hand. I still don't know if it even bothered him. But on some level I knew this 2.1BB stuff was exploiting me and I wasn't going to let it stand.

That's just early game which is like 10% of your ROI (ballpark). Eastbay and some other early STTF regs I can't remember now solved all the late game stuff (which is what really matters) with ICM a long time ago.

I saw the games go from $215s being easily profitable (on party) to $16s being kinda tough (after party folded) - just from 2006 to 2010. So I extrapolate that out to 2018 and assume things are much harder now. Maybe the curve leveled off after that.

gramps has made several million off the game, so I tend to trust his take.

Last edited by suzzer99; 09-16-2018 at 04:40 AM.
suzzer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2018, 07:58 AM   #35254
Larry Legend
Celtic Pride
 
Larry Legend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kyrie's earth
Posts: 42,739
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Pokerstars isn't the only place to play. There are tons of "home game" apps with the worst players you've ever seen.
Larry Legend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2018, 09:50 AM   #35255
OmgGlutten!
Pooh-Bah
 
OmgGlutten!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,033
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

last night before sleeping it was a "3-day flash sale on Udemy $9.99", this morning it is $11.99. lol.
OmgGlutten! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2018, 10:06 AM   #35256
microbet
Solar Powered
 
microbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 53,270
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Not the same thing. Today's webdev is just about learning more tools to build cool stuff. Many times it's a win-win for everyone.
As I'm getting back into things it's kind of surprising how little has changed since 1999. Devs are doing pretty much the same things. Like you said there are more tools and functions to learn, but there's less reinventing the wheel than when you wrote a shopping cart in Perl cgi and didn't have stackoverflow. The biggest difference, and it's not a big difference in logic or anything, is just moving a lot of things to the client side. Javascript sucked back then and I think browsers were way less consistent/compatible.

Still, like these labor saving frameworks seem pretty similar to what people did with their own code "libraries" and templates. People still tried to keep the wheel reinventing to a minimum back then.
microbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2018, 10:08 AM   #35257
OmgGlutten!
Pooh-Bah
 
OmgGlutten!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,033
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

the last time i played on poker stars ssnl ~2014ish it was nearly impossible to get a seat with a fish unless you started a table because of seating software. zoom was reg heavy and fish in zoom can just fold and play the next hand immediately so they lost less.

to play those games without rakeback would seem like absolute torture.

i was proud to have any positive winrate pre-rakeback.

as, a footnote, after black friday, i was super easily able to setup a VPN and play from the USA. i wonder how many other people were doing that.

i miss pre-black friday online poker but really don't miss post black friday online poker.
OmgGlutten! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2018, 10:30 AM   #35258
leavesofliberty
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: probably busto
Posts: 6,280
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

I am currently using POSIX for shared memory, and message passing. The shared memory is read-only to the client, so the client passes messages to the server through that. The shared memory contains the game state (and potentially what each player thinks about the game state). Starting with Tic-Tac-Toe to get the communications down, then go back to the poker code.

I could use shared memory, and get threads to communicate with the server, and figure-out asynchronous communication instead of message queues.
leavesofliberty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2018, 11:31 AM   #35259
leavesofliberty
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: probably busto
Posts: 6,280
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

I dislike it when other use block quotes when line comments are sufficient. Sometimes I use block quotes to block-out chunks, which I can't do when they use block quotes indiscriminately.
leavesofliberty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2018, 01:26 PM   #35260
suzzer99
Save the Cheerleader, Save the World
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on top of the bell curve
Posts: 92,472
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Printer fun continues:

Quote:
suzzer--

I think I major screwed up when I deleted the 6970 printer program--after at least I'd got it installed, even if it was still not connecting. I deleted it when I panicked about the malicious virus threat. But after you said not to worry, I figured I could reinstall it with the same CD installer disk provided. But it won't let me do that anymore. A key final step is now missing. Thinking about it, I guess HP has their reasons for making it a one-time only process with any one disk.

So if I bring it in to the Office Depot Tech specialist Monday, that installation disk won't work for her either and she'll probably figure out why, even if I don't tell her I'd gotten the printer program installed in my computer--but then deleted it! Which means probably I can't return the printer for a refund either--since they could say it wasn't defective, but that my blunder caused the whole problem. I'm tying myself in knots which only seem to get tighter. Aaaarrrggghhh!

-- Dad
Still refuses to call HP support. Would rather just send me these emails.
suzzer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2018, 01:46 PM   #35261
blackize5
old hand
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,339
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Legend View Post
Pokerstars isn't the only place to play. There are tons of "home game" apps with the worst players you've ever seen.
Can you name any specifics? I occasionally get the urge to play but I don't have any great options. Ignition seems decent but their software is garbage
blackize5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2018, 02:05 PM   #35262
maxtower
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
maxtower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,913
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by OmgGlutten! View Post
Specifically, which phone features you want to utilize?

Assume that we aren't going to learn all of them and just want to get better in one, as a generality, which should that be?
Does the project need to mix native and hybrid? > Don't use flutter, maybe better with ReactNative
Do you already have a decent mobile website? > maybe just port the webtech to a web view system in the app instead of these frameworks.

Do you need the best possibly performance or have a lot of users? Probably should just do native for both iOS and Android.

The larger/complicated the project, the less likely you'll be happy with a hybrid approach. Expect to give back some productivity gains by fighting with these hybrid frameworks. It's not automatically half the work since you don't have to do things twice.
maxtower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2018, 02:50 PM   #35263
leavesofliberty
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: probably busto
Posts: 6,280
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by _dave_ View Post
leavesofliberty, I moved your follow-up posts on "poker engine" here, they were accidentally in the homework thread.
tyty, briefly it was unclear how to proceed with IPC, but I decided on shared memory and threading to make ai rather than message queues. The server is a thread, and each client is a thread. I made my first move in tic-tac-toe, and now I see the light at the end of the tunnel.
leavesofliberty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2018, 03:12 PM   #35264
Larry Legend
Celtic Pride
 
Larry Legend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kyrie's earth
Posts: 42,739
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackize5 View Post
Can you name any specifics? I occasionally get the urge to play but I don't have any great options. Ignition seems decent but their software is garbage
There are basically apps that people run as homegames, pppoker is one such app. But you need to get invited into games and they all run on credit that I've seen so you usually need someone vouching for you or get in with the hosts somehow.
Larry Legend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 05:59 AM   #35265
Wolfram
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Wolfram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: You can be my wingman any time
Posts: 14,733
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Legend View Post
There are basically apps that people run as homegames, pppoker is one such app. But you need to get invited into games and they all run on credit that I've seen so you usually need someone vouching for you or get in with the hosts somehow.
yeah... that doesn't sound sketchy at all
Wolfram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 08:43 AM   #35266
_dave_
_Pooh_Bah_
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UK (or what remains of it)
Posts: 12,978
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Providing online poker to US citizens in 2018 is pretty much sketchy by definition
_dave_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 12:28 PM   #35267
Barrin6
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Barrin6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: beyond legal blindness
Posts: 6,898
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Yea I looked into it last month. The whole online poker for US is still in shambles. Software is a piece of crap. Little to no support for Mac users. Go look at the internet poker forum, seems like people always have issues depositing and withdrawing.
Barrin6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 12:31 PM   #35268
RustyBrooks
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
RustyBrooks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 24,447
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

I can see why someone might really prefer a node backend to go with a JS frontend, if they're working on both. Switching from JS to python is a huge PITA, due to some superficial similarities. Things I am constantly screwing up when I switch

* ! vs not / and vs && / or vs ||
* object syntax, i.e.
{ 'foo': 'bar' } vs { foo: 'bar' }
* obviously indent vs curly braces for blocks
* map/filter/reduce syntax.
javascript is foo.map(function) and python is map(function, foo)
* ternary conditions
"a ? b : c" vs "b if a else c"

and a bunch of other stuff I am sure.

On the other hand, I will probably never write a desktop app again, unless for some reason I really need something that will be installed on a user's computer. It's just too easy to make and launch a javascript app. Mine looks like **** but it works great.
RustyBrooks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 12:42 PM   #35269
jmakin
 
jmakin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Streaming
Posts: 28,590
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

When I do play, I play on america's cardroom. Forget what network that is. The payouts are quick, payment is pretty easy and not that sketchy. The games are pretty lively and a lot of fish. They finally have HUD support, they didn't for a while. The tournaments are really juicy, huge overlays a lot of the time.

Rake is pretty damn high but that's standard these days. I wish there was more action in LHE, it's completely dead except some random 2/4 games that fire up sometimes.
jmakin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 01:25 PM   #35270
suzzer99
Save the Cheerleader, Save the World
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on top of the bell curve
Posts: 92,472
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyBrooks View Post
* object syntax, i.e.
{ 'foo': 'bar' } vs { foo: 'bar' }
FWIW both of these are valid JS. But neither is valid strict JSON (double quotes everywhere, no comments, no trailing commas).

On my last job we imported all our JSON config stuff as JS so we didn't have to fight with strict JSON all the time. It was just bootup stuff so it's not like performance mattered.


Quote:
* obviously indent vs curly braces for blocks
I wish all languages used indentation instead of curly braces. So much cleaner, less code, and you don't get into wars about where to put the curly braces. Also if you use tabs then people can set the tab stops to whatever they want (you can try to do that with other languages but eventually someone checks in spaces and fries out the system).
suzzer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 01:44 PM   #35271
Grue
Pooh-Bah
 
Grue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: It is pitch black.
Posts: 5,645
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

you'll pry my curly braces from my cold dead hands imo
Grue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 01:48 PM   #35272
jmakin
 
jmakin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Streaming
Posts: 28,590
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

yea I need the braces. The story goes that Steve Bourne didn't like curly braces, he thought even those were too ambiguous. He preferred the Algol-68 syntax of "if...fi" and "case...esac" etc., which is why we still have that today in bash.

TBH I like that syntax too.
jmakin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 02:02 PM   #35273
well named
poorly undertitled
 
well named's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: esse est coesse
Posts: 76,240
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grue View Post
you'll pry my curly braces from my cold dead hands imo
#teamcurlybraces
well named is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 02:24 PM   #35274
suzzer99
Save the Cheerleader, Save the World
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on top of the bell curve
Posts: 92,472
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Has anyone on #teamcurlybraces ever worked extensively with an indentation-based language?

Jade was my first and holy crap I never want to go back to any other template language.
suzzer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 02:29 PM   #35275
goofyballer
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
goofyballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 66,909
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Linus discovers human emotions, kind of

Quote:
This week people in our community confronted me about my lifetime of
not understanding emotions. My flippant attacks in emails have been
both unprofessional and uncalled for. Especially at times when I made
it personal. In my quest for a better patch, this made sense to me.
I know now this was not OK and I am truly sorry.
"In my quest for a better patch" lol, he sounds like my dbag coworker that everyone hates
goofyballer is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online