Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Programming Discussions about computer programming

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-03-2018, 10:43 PM   #35001
jmakin
 
jmakin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Streaming
Posts: 28,520
** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

In highly sought after majors like CS they have several lower division courses that are meant to catch early failures. Usually itís the math requirement but at my school the early programming classes are meant to be pretty hard.
jmakin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2018, 10:45 PM   #35002
suzzer99
Save the Cheerleader, Save the World
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on top of the bell curve
Posts: 92,150
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

General Physics was like that. Probably my favorite course ever. It completely changed the way I look at the world.
suzzer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2018, 09:13 AM   #35003
jjshabado
Carpal Tunnel
 
jjshabado's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 22,555
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

One other thing to keep in mind, I think the claim that University courses are being watered down is a timeless complaint made by past students and professors since the beginning of time.

It use to be that removing low-level programming (assembly/hand assembly) or pointers from the early CS curriculum was going to lead to all these dumb unprepared students. I don't know if that's still a thing, but I haven't heard about it as much lately. Material that should be covered evolved and I'm sure it almost always involves removing some 'hard' material that some people think really needs to be covered.
jjshabado is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2018, 09:20 AM   #35004
jjshabado
Carpal Tunnel
 
jjshabado's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 22,555
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Haven't read through the thread, but this seems interesting to a bunch of people.

jjshabado is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2018, 09:31 AM   #35005
Victor
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Victor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 61,355
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

hmm, those salaries seem pretty low to me. guess I am about in line.
Victor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2018, 12:12 PM   #35006
RustyBrooks
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
RustyBrooks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 24,377
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post
hmm, those salaries seem pretty low to me. guess I am about in line.
I was a little surprised that the bay area salaries were so low, I expected them to be much higher than mine, but most similar ones seemed the same or lower.
RustyBrooks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2018, 01:03 PM   #35007
Larry Legend
Celtic Pride
 
Larry Legend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kyrie's earth
Posts: 42,714
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

As I've learned more I've come to realize TypeScript is awesome and while at first i found the hype around it kinda confusing I'm seeing now why it's so good.
Larry Legend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2018, 01:42 PM   #35008
suzzer99
Save the Cheerleader, Save the World
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on top of the bell curve
Posts: 92,150
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Can you elaborate on what you like?
suzzer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2018, 01:43 PM   #35009
suzzer99
Save the Cheerleader, Save the World
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on top of the bell curve
Posts: 92,150
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyBrooks View Post
I was a little surprised that the bay area salaries were so low, I expected them to be much higher than mine, but most similar ones seemed the same or lower.
Yeah I thought a 5 year big 4 engineer was making more than that. Makes me feel better.
suzzer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2018, 01:44 PM   #35010
suzzer99
Save the Cheerleader, Save the World
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on top of the bell curve
Posts: 92,150
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

I just found out I can see my Mac's saved wifi passwords in the keychain app. Yay!

So annoying when your mac still connects to some previous network, but you don't know the pword anymore and you can't get your phone or another device on it.
suzzer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2018, 01:49 PM   #35011
PJo336
THRILLHOUSE!
 
PJo336's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,896
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
I just found out I can see my Mac's saved wifi passwords in the keychain app. Yay!

So annoying when your mac still connects to some previous network, but you don't know the pword anymore and you can't get your phone or another device on it.
Those 2 statements don't really go with each other, and have never experienced the latter due to the former.
PJo336 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2018, 01:59 PM   #35012
suzzer99
Save the Cheerleader, Save the World
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on top of the bell curve
Posts: 92,150
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

I see a buddy of mine in KC once or twice a year. My mac remembered his network, but my new phone didn't know the wifi. He couldn't remember his pword and didn't know where it was stored. Actually he thought he remembered it as 92FordTempo. But after a ton of trial and error we figured out it was 1992FordTempo.

I didn't know I could actually view the remembered wifi passwords somewhere on my Mac.



It's tip #10 @8:25.
suzzer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2018, 02:26 PM   #35013
Larry Legend
Celtic Pride
 
Larry Legend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kyrie's earth
Posts: 42,714
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Can you elaborate on what you like?
Part of software engineering is the constant struggle to be as efficient as possible and provide as much value as possible. This is one of the reasons for the rise of devops, containers, etc. Have your devs building product and providing value for customers and not fighting with their tools. It's also why no one would ever use vanilla JS and manually deal with browser specifics.

TypeScript may require some extra work up front, but it removes an entire category of potentially time consuming and tough to debug errors. It also makes it way easier to understand APIs between functions, and internal code when you are coming into an existing project cold.

Imagine getting up to speed on two legacy JS codebases. One is in TS and one is in vanilla JS. Its gonna be way easier and you're gonna feel more confident making changes in the TS codebase. To extend this, imagine if test coverage is bad/ non existent in each.

Nothing is stopping you from not using TS and just hacking in vanilla JS at first and then adding TS later when you wanna make what you are doing more robust.
Larry Legend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2018, 02:39 PM   #35014
suzzer99
Save the Cheerleader, Save the World
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on top of the bell curve
Posts: 92,150
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Getting up to speed on a new codebase or 3rd party API makes a lot of sense to me.

As far as catching errors that are hard to debug - I've yet to run into a run time error in practice that typescript would have caught, which wouldn't also be caught by a good linter. I am sure they exist. But personally that's not a big selling point for me because it's never come up on apps I've worked on.

So for me it's:

Positives - auto-complete, getting up to speed quicker, and stuff like being able to quickly see all the properties in a default properties object that's been extended from a framework and added to

Negatives: hate the compile step, harder to debug w/o a good source map - which apparently is tricky with node, weirdness with 3rd parties where you have to hack up an object - I saw this with Angular 2 HttpProperties object

I think it might be worth it but it's far from a slam dunk for me. I worked with it for a while with Angular 2 and a node app - the light bulb never went on for me that this is better. Usually even if I resist at first, if something is clearly better I feel like I eventually get it. Maybe I just need to work with TS more.
suzzer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2018, 02:52 PM   #35015
well named
poorly undertitled
 
well named's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: esse est coesse
Posts: 76,043
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Things I like about typescript (some of which are not unique to typescript, to be clear)

- Targeting ES5 while writing ES6
- decorators
- the flexibility of types and their optional use
- tslint is very configurable
- Feels very natural with webpack

Things that are sometimes a bummer:
- out of date declarations files for third-party libs
- I've had a few hard to figure out issues with source maps not working, at this point the solution to which is just "use Chrome"

At first I suspected that the fact that typings are bolted on would lead to a bunch of goofy workarounds or problems. And it does take a hot minute to get used to some of the ambiguities of compile-time vs run-time typing. But in the end I feel like the flexibility allowed by the underlying language being untyped is actually pretty useful. It lets you choose where you want to be very specific and also where you want to avoid painful overhead when writing code if it's not valuable.

With decorators I've been able to fairly simply build an extensible data model layer that serializes/deserializes JSON from an API endpoint into class instances where stuff like inflating local DateTime objects, skewing to the user's timezone, handling metadata, and other assorted goodness is really easy, so I'm enjoying decorators mostly as a way to do mixins, but there are some useful traits of property decorators that goes beyond some other simpler types of mixins. There are a few things about decorator metadata that I wish they would do slightly differently but it's been very useful, and we have to use that feature for angular anyway.

Some of the things I'm enjoying for front-end dev specifically probably rely on the confluence of webpack+typescript, more than typescript by itself, also.
well named is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2018, 02:53 PM   #35016
Grue
Pooh-Bah
 
Grue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: It is pitch black.
Posts: 5,638
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Legend View Post
TypeScript may require some extra work up front, but it removes an entire category of potentially time consuming and tough to debug errors.
What are some examples of this? I struggle to find the value in TS but tbh I've never really have given it a try. Its just that I don't have type problems in javascript. If I eff up something it gives ye olde "foo is not a function on line bar" and off I go to fix it. I know what types are because I know what I'm calling and with what, and if I don't, I use JSDoc on the more complicated functions. I don't get TS at all.
Grue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2018, 02:56 PM   #35017
:::grimReaper:::
veteran
 
:::grimReaper:::'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,579
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Salaries are interesting, but they're not apples to apples. No one mentioned how many hours they're expected to work, which can vary from 40 to 65.

Also, is she trying prove/disprove gender equality? If so, this seems very unscientific.

She should also store this in a database. Most people are only going to read a subset of the topmost tweets.
:::grimReaper::: is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2018, 03:00 PM   #35018
well named
poorly undertitled
 
well named's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: esse est coesse
Posts: 76,043
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by :::grimReaper::: View Post
Also, is she trying prove/disprove gender equality? If so, this seems very unscientific.
I think the goal is to provide information so women have targets for their own negotiations. Of course it's useful to men for that also.
well named is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2018, 03:01 PM   #35019
Larry Legend
Celtic Pride
 
Larry Legend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kyrie's earth
Posts: 42,714
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

I haven't come across the bugs either but my friend (who is a great dev with ~10 years exp) has run into a couple.

One was in a legacy codebase where they were doing a typeof and then checking for truthiness. Well in very rare circumstances this typeof was being passed null.

Another was someone typod or somehow removed an essential property on an object and merged the code into prod. In this circumstance he figured there must be a circumstance in runtime that caused it so he spent an entire day tracing everything before realizing a senior engineer had removed it in a PR the days before when hmy friend was on vacation. He felt dumb he had only read the PR descriptions to see if they touched this area of code and didn't look line by line, but that this was a purely destructive move with no explanation unrelated to the PR (perhaps a debugging artifact, etc.).

But both of those saw code go into prod that would have been caught by a type system and from that (and knowing he works with generally considered great developers) I imagine in the wild there is a whole lot of time being wasted on similar stuff.
Larry Legend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2018, 03:14 PM   #35020
Larry Legend
Celtic Pride
 
Larry Legend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kyrie's earth
Posts: 42,714
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by well named View Post
But in the end I feel like the flexibility allowed by the underlying language being untyped is actually pretty useful. It lets you choose where you want to be very specific and also where you want to avoid painful overhead when writing code if it's not valuable.
This right here is great.

You can say "alright this code here is going to be rock solid" and other places you can be like "this is a work in progress/ there may be dragons, etc."

The rock solid part is very helpful for building robust products.
Larry Legend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2018, 03:31 PM   #35021
:::grimReaper:::
veteran
 
:::grimReaper:::'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,579
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by :::grimReaper::: View Post
Salaries are interesting, but they're not apples to apples. No one mentioned how many hours they're expected to work, which can vary from 40 to 65.

...And what fraction of the day you actually work lol.
:::grimReaper::: is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2018, 04:04 PM   #35022
OmgGlutten!
Pooh-Bah
 
OmgGlutten!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 4,999
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

software engineer, six months of experience (bootcamp grad), new york city: $160,000, plus $55,000 bonus
----
senior software engineer, seven years of experience, startup in san francisco: $150,000

lol
OmgGlutten! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2018, 04:10 PM   #35023
suzzer99
Save the Cheerleader, Save the World
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on top of the bell curve
Posts: 92,150
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Top one could be Netflix.
suzzer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2018, 04:19 PM   #35024
OmgGlutten!
Pooh-Bah
 
OmgGlutten!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 4,999
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Where do you go for code reviews? Is there some site that charges to have code reviewed for a small fee, think "take home assignments". Stack Overflow has a place that you can post code reviews but it's not very active/busy.
OmgGlutten! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2018, 04:47 PM   #35025
suzzer99
Save the Cheerleader, Save the World
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on top of the bell curve
Posts: 92,150
Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

I know of no system other worth a crap other than leads reviewing all pull requests.

That includes the old pre-git days of wandering though code on a shared screen - trying to figure out what changed.
suzzer99 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online