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Old 05-08-2018, 04:20 PM   #32726
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

You're a sick, twisted, depraved individual :P
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Old 05-08-2018, 04:49 PM   #32727
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

It’s also the only functional programming language I’ve ever done. For its purpose - converting XML to XHTML, XSL-FOP, etc. - it’s insanely elegant and powerful.

XSL/x-path also lives on all over the place.
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Old 05-08-2018, 05:05 PM   #32728
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

I hate XSLT with a burning passion.
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Old 05-08-2018, 10:24 PM   #32729
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Does anyone have a strong opinion on http/2?

I've been learning more about http and it seems interesting for many reasons.
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Old 05-08-2018, 11:14 PM   #32730
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

HTTP2 has a lot of nice features, for sure. Adoption seems kind of middling?
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Old 05-09-2018, 12:05 AM   #32731
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

There seems to be a lot of controversy on certain security implications.

I'm not sure if there is pushback on it basically being a Google spec via spdy, and if the security stuff is for real. It looks like there is a proposal out there that eliminates a major security concern.

When I asked about it to a slack channel I'm on some guy immediately bashed it for having security issues and optimizing at the wrong level. He's also a super ahole blowhard so I didnt just trust him and did my research to understand his position but it does seem like a decent gripe?
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Old 05-09-2018, 07:49 AM   #32732
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmakin View Post
at some point are we gonna just stop making new languages? should we? i mean it's just absurd and there are more of them every day. do we need any more of them?

some newer ones do some cool stuff. The Java VM is fascinating to me. But do we need more languages that build off the JVM, etc.? at some point it's just all syntactic sugar and most of it is all built on C anyway.
What are you going to do, ban people from developing them?

As long as there is incentive to make them (need, demand, money, fun, fame) people will do it.
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Old 05-09-2018, 08:56 AM   #32733
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

I actually don't mind the . string concatenation operator at all, quite like it. Does take a minute to switch mindset though. Autohotkey uses it too. I'm much more annoyed by having to prefix all my variables with $.
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Old 05-09-2018, 10:08 AM   #32734
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by OmgGlutten! View Post
i don't think new languages are bad. i think new javascript frameworks are ****ing annoying. like, who wants to learn Angular/Vue/React when they all do the same thing and it is basically just a power struggle where the creators gain fame/fortune and we get to learn new syntax.
I used to hate javascript, especially jquery.
I think react is amazing however.

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Old 05-09-2018, 12:11 PM   #32735
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Legend View Post
There seems to be a lot of controversy on certain security implications.

I'm not sure if there is pushback on it basically being a Google spec via spdy, and if the security stuff is for real. It looks like there is a proposal out there that eliminates a major security concern.
The bitching I've heard is mostly along the lines of the fact that period allocated to designing the spec was so short that they basically had to take something that already existed (spdy)

Security wise, I dunno. It's not in the standard but due to adoption practices it'll be TLS only. I think it's missing opportunistic encryption, which some people wanted.

Quote:
When I asked about it to a slack channel I'm on some guy immediately bashed it for having security issues and optimizing at the wrong level. He's also a super ahole blowhard so I didnt just trust him and did my research to understand his position but it does seem like a decent gripe?
Optimizing at the wrong level... maybe.

I think it'll stay backwards compatible with HTTP/1.1 so I am mostly OK with it, but, they are basically doing a lot of stuff at the HTTP layer that looks more like things you'd do at the TCP layer, such as layering multiple parallel requests in one TCP channel, having the server push assets, etc.

Something that makes me a little nostalgic for the old days, vs HTTP/2, is that in the old days the protocol was so simple that you could telnet to a webserver address at port 80, type some stuff, and get a response. Like..

Code:
% telnet foo.com 80
GET /test?id=1 HTTP/1.1
HOST: something.com
COOKIES: ...some cookie values or whatever
<enter>
<enter>
It was also easy to make very simple hand rolled tools that could act either as HTTP servers or clients, without making use of some rather-difficult-to-write libraries.

Like... when I was taking some class in college I wrote a webserver in bash. That's something you can do in HTTP/1 or 1.1 but probably not so easily in 2. Which is fine, as computers get more complicated, the tools probably have to get more advanced also. telnet doesn't even ship with most linux distros any more.
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Old 05-09-2018, 01:10 PM   #32736
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

I fondly remember telnetting into SMTP servers to generate email with fake from addresses
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Old 05-09-2018, 01:16 PM   #32737
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

My new favorite thing is reading over lots of code in lots of different files and figuring out the smallest change possible to thread the needle on a series of bugfixes.

I just pushed a PR that I think addresses several backlog bugs in prod, including one I recently found, and it's about 50 characters total.
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Old 05-09-2018, 01:17 PM   #32738
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

I'm finding as I get better at programming I'm writing significantly less code.

Well maybe not less overall, but per feature/bugfix.
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Old 05-09-2018, 01:31 PM   #32739
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Bug fix: 5 lines

Opportunistic refactor: 200 lines

IMO :P
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Old 05-09-2018, 02:00 PM   #32740
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by well named View Post
I fondly remember telnetting into SMTP servers to generate email with fake from addresses
Still possible on lots of mail servers, I reckon.
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Old 05-09-2018, 02:00 PM   #32741
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by well named View Post
Bug fix: 5 lines

Opportunistic refactor: 200 lines

IMO :P
Also, on your 5 line fix, you can expect 7-10 comments/objections in the PR.

On your 200 line change: LGTM
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Old 05-09-2018, 02:02 PM   #32742
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Heh I have a love hate relationship with refactoring. I enjoy doing it but I think most devs don't pick meaningful pieces to refactor.

Example, I recently saw someone spend 3 days refactoring two too big methods that do something very similar down to a separate class to contain all the logic for the sake of DRY. Meanwhile the code in the methods hasn't changed in two years, and there is no foreseeable reason it should change
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Old 05-09-2018, 02:13 PM   #32743
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

I think new languages nowadays don’t really innovate and are either ego driven or a company trying to corner some market by becoming the new hotness (looking at you, Swift).

An example of a newer language that does something innovative is Java and the JVM. I’m all for new and innovative stuff but the languages coming out now don’t really seem to do anything that interesting that 400 other langs dont already do.

Compilers/langs are my pet area of study so i’m all for innovation but idk. Just some thing thats been rattling around my brain lately.
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Old 05-09-2018, 04:13 PM   #32744
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

I'm not gonna lie, our backend is all Java and I don't really see a purpose in trying to learn it, but jmakin loves java and the jvm so much I may need to give this **** a try.
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Old 05-09-2018, 04:31 PM   #32745
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

it's a love hate thing, what i love is that for almost any imaginable problem there is either a native library for it, or some plugin.

I like its strict typing and verbose exception class. I love its event handling capabilities, i love how you can easily redefine interfaces like compare, and i love its string processing capabilities. Also java servlets >>>>>>>>> PHP

what i really hate is how everything is an object, there are wrappers to everything, factories, Strings are immutable, verbose and confusing to read boilerplate code, and a lot of unnecessary overhead created during runtime. I could go on about a billion other tiny things I hate.

i decided to do this entire programming challenge course in Java and so far I have easily implemented everything except last week where I was supposed to load a plugin to an already compiled file, and i couldnt figure out a way to easily do that so i gave up.

The JVM is very interesting. I unfortunately had to drop a graduate level project course I wanted to take this quarter - the assignment was to implement the JVM from scratch. Lol. Even if my schedule wasn't insane I would probably fail.
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Old 05-09-2018, 05:29 PM   #32746
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

It's funny to call java "newer"

Java is old enough to drink
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Old 05-09-2018, 05:32 PM   #32747
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmakin View Post
what i really hate is Strings are immutable
Wat, why
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Old 05-09-2018, 05:32 PM   #32748
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Newer in the sense that some still commonly used languages have been around for almost 50 years, and in the sense that newer versions of java have so much more going on than the original, but i guess that’s true of most languages
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Old 05-09-2018, 05:33 PM   #32749
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

I had to listen to some java nerd go on about how great functional programming in it was. Ugh
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Old 05-09-2018, 05:35 PM   #32750
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

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Wat, why
have you ever had this common mistake wreck absolute havoc at runtime and not understood why?

str += "foo";


this is fine for small strings. but if your string is say, the size of pride and prejudice (which happened to me recently) then it has to destroy and recreate the entire string just to append. you need to use stringbuilder to concat to a large string.

now, every java dev knows this and will avoid this mistake, but it's quite unintuitive that every method that modifies a string actually destroys the entire object and recreates it.
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