Ok, feel free to be a little mores specific and point out what I'm misjudging. Unless this place has 8 employees, all devs and jmakin is going to be lucky #9 that job description seems way out of line for a junior dev.

To be clear, I'm not saying jmakin isn't capable of doing most of those tasks, this isn't about his capabilities. I'm saying those aren't tasks a developer should be wasting their time on.

Why does anything else matter than what jmakin is capable of?

You are speaking about a job and saying "this isn't about his capabilities".

I tend to lean towards kerowo view here. if jmakin's first priority was to be a competent and legit professional software developer/engineer, then his job should prioritize writing code.

however, jmakin seems to really like his future role and may not be as into becoming a developer as the rest of us are.

but a developer just starting a job should be made to write as much code as possible for learning purposes.

that would be super strange if he was actually keeping the team on task and prioritizing work and setting deadlines like a project manager. and it would be legit batsht if he was talking to clients like a product owner.

it sounds more like they have a business analyst type role set up for him.

Bold added

We were talking about the job he was offered and that it was hinky and didn't sound right. What it sounds like is a place that wants an admin that can code.

I'm definitely not saying jmakin shouldn't take it, just that it doesn't match what my first dev job a million years ago was about or what devs at any of the software companies I've worked at since do.

lol, just lol.

Given that jmakin's reaction to it was positive (so he may have already expressed interest in these areas) and this isn't afaik a written job description but what was explained verbally (I could be wrong), I think it could just be that they were trying to sell him on the job by letting him know that there are other things he could do to make a difference. I'm also guessing that jmakin is older and less socially awkward than other entry-level engineers, making him better suited for client-facing activities.

Some companies also have separate customer-facing engineering roles (forward-deployed engineer is the trendy term I hear) but lots of companies do have engineers act as part-time consultants from time to time for their bigger clients.

I guess i’ll find out soon, i can email and ask more specifics when they send me the formal offer

The absolute horror

Bold added for emphasis.

It's easy to take shots and not make an actual argument Larry. Tell me which developer position you've had that has had any of those extra responsibilities added in. Was it your first one or, uh, your first one?

Adios, I can make my argument without having to do any logical gymnastics or bring anything new to the discussion that wasn't already in place. If I'm out of line on this let us know how many jr. dev positions you've seen or applied for that include Product, Project, and Developer management responsibilities to it?

Sorry for the derail jmakin, hope you get an offer you like and have great experience with the role.

Yup, Sales Engineers are fairly common positions to see listed. Sorry to continue this derail, jmakin made it sound like another one of those "we need 10 years Swift experience" type job descriptions except pointing to weird management positions. It may have hit a spot with me because I'm interviewing for a Systems Analyst/QA/Scrum Master/Test Lead/ position that read very out of line with the Success Manager, Implementation Manager, System Analyst job descriptions.

kerowo, just fyi I'm putting you on ignore. Since you are a mod somewhere I'm gonna have to use a script so it might not be immediate, but just didn't want you not know why I'm not going to be responding to your posts at some point in the future.

uh link to script plz too lazy to um tampermonkey jquery things

Unless you are actually interested in that customer service/management crap I agree with others that you should keep looking for jobs that prioritize programming. Our team has someone whose sole job it is to take care of all that crap so we don't have to worry about it. You have a CS degree and a high GPA, if you were self-taught/boot camper I think there is an argument to do whatever you can to put your foot in the door but I don't think you are in that position.

LMAO. What happened Larry? That laptop I gave you a deal on crap out on your or something?

No, the laptop is great

It is nothing against you personally. I just find your worldview to be so incredibly different and counter to mine that it literally tilts me and it is taking extreme amounts of self control to not answer your posts in tomes, which is why I'm trying to just simply point out things I literally 100% to the absolute extreme disagree with. Such as the idea that when speaking about a job someone's "capabilities" are not relevant.

The ignore script Neil S created is here.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...ostcount=10286

I thought I clarified this, we were talking about the position not the applicant. We were talking about the job description, we would have had the same conversation regardless of who brought it up. What I should have asked you is how many developers you hired to fill that job of developer/PM/scrum master/Product Owner and how many of them were right out of school.

I like that we all have different backgrounds and I am very aware of that when I chime in on topics you guys are talking about. Overly broad job descriptions happen everywhere and this one set off warning bells.

I'm not interested in trading shots with people in this forum, that's what Politics is for.(I'm doing the best I can with adios) If you think what I'm saying is wrong tell me why, I value your opinion, it doesn't need to be a tome unless I miss your point.

My two cents on this is that there is a distinction between software engineer and software developer, the responsibilities he outlined to me seemed more in line with an engineer

I get my formal offer next week