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Old 11-22-2017, 06:05 AM   #30851
Mihkel05
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Grue,

While we're on that subject, are your posts about your game a cautionary tale you're spinning for performance art or did you really do all these myriad terrible choices?
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Old 11-22-2017, 08:26 AM   #30852
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

wait wtf did grue do wrong?
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Old 11-22-2017, 11:19 AM   #30853
Mihkel05
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Folks,

Got a friend who is debating whether to take an L8 position at Google. Work is mildly interesting, not amazing. Pay is as expected. Anyone have some insight into this?
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Old 11-22-2017, 11:45 AM   #30854
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

I know a bunch of people that are working for Google and they all love it. Off the top of my head I can't even think of anyone that I know that has started there and left.

Google tells me that L8 could be either Director level / Principal Engineer level so I suspect (but don't know for sure) that a couple of the people I know are at that level.

But, I mean, a big part of it comes down to his personality and what his alternatives are.
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Old 11-22-2017, 12:19 PM   #30855
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mihkel05 View Post
Folks,

Got a friend who is debating whether to take an L8 position at Google. Work is mildly interesting, not amazing. Pay is as expected. Anyone have some insight into this?
Which location, what product area if any, which function and what do you want to know?
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Old 11-22-2017, 12:34 PM   #30856
Mihkel05
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Europe. AI. Same function as every other L8, wtf?

wrt what I want to know:
1) Work enviroment/hours/crunch/etc
2) Upwards mobility
3) Career options assuming #2 doesn't pan out
4) Any relevant anecdotal information someone may have
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Old 11-22-2017, 01:12 PM   #30857
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

I have an incredibly stupid html Angular question. Currently if there is any white space between the <sub> tag and its previous element there will be a space between the superscript and the word it is superscripting. This includes if the <sub> tag is on the next line in the code.

well, many devs have a setting in VSCode that formats files upon saving. When this occurs, it automatically moves the <sub> to a new line.

so, for example, this works:

<tile-heading>{{title}}<sub>superscript</sub></tile-heading>

this doesnt, but many devs will format to this:

<tile-heading>{{title}}
<sub>superscript</sub>
</tile-heading>

Anyone know a way to use the 2nd part so that there is no space between the word and the superscript? like, something to wrap around all of it.
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Old 11-22-2017, 01:26 PM   #30858
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mihkel05 View Post
Europe. AI. Same function as every other L8, wtf?
Europe is only slightly more specific than Earth. AI is a field, not a product. L8 is not a job function - is it engineering, SRE, test engineering, product, sales and is it a management or IC role?

Quote:
wrt what I want to know:
1) Work enviroment/hours/crunch/etc
2) Upwards mobility
3) Career options assuming #2 doesn't pan out
4) Any relevant anecdotal information someone may have
1) At that level, you set your own work environment and hours
2) It depends on how you compare to the others and how the product or the team you're associated with it does. But generally speaking, if they are hiring at that level externally, it's likely for something that Google is not corporately very good at (which biases the project towards failure) or it's something Googlers don't want to do (same)
3) This depends on who you are and what you bring to the table
4) My understanding is that within core engineering, Google doesn't frequently hire at this level from outside - if I look at my acquaintances or other people I've come across at this level (just L7-L10, including Facebook and Microsoft for a larger sample), the only unifying theme is that they've been around for a long time. The only exceptions I've seen are people moving between similar companies. This may be less true outside of engineering and also less true outside of the US, where there's less established talent at these levels.

But man these are junior engineer questions - at L5 or above as a manager, it's literally your job to answer these questions and help develop the careers of your direct and indirect reports. If your friend is genuinely wondering about these things, I hope they are a genius individual contributor, not a manager.
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Old 11-22-2017, 01:28 PM   #30859
Mihkel05
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

All L8s are middle managers bro. There are no engineers.
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Old 11-22-2017, 01:33 PM   #30860
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mihkel05 View Post
All L8s are middle managers bro. There are no engineers.
There absolutely are people on the technical track at this level, though one could argue that it's also a management role. But either way, being a technical leader and being a people manager are not the same and do not entail the same set of responsibilities. Also, engineering isn't the only thing and director of engineering is not the same thing as director of product management for obvious reasons.
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Old 11-22-2017, 06:02 PM   #30861
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post
I have an incredibly stupid html Angular question. Currently if there is any white space between the <sub> tag and its previous element there will be a space between the superscript and the word it is superscripting. This includes if the <sub> tag is on the next line in the code.

well, many devs have a setting in VSCode that formats files upon saving. When this occurs, it automatically moves the <sub> to a new line.

so, for example, this works:

<tile-heading>{{title}}<sub>superscript</sub></tile-heading>

this doesnt, but many devs will format to this:

<tile-heading>{{title}}
<sub>superscript</sub>
</tile-heading>

Anyone know a way to use the 2nd part so that there is no space between the word and the superscript? like, something to wrap around all of it.
If it's vscode it's probably Prettier, in which case this might work:

Code:
{/* prettier-ignore */}
<tile-heading>{{title}}<sub>superscript</sub></tile-heading>
https://prettier.io/docs/en/ignore.html

edit: just noticed the example, using sub for superscript?
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Old 11-22-2017, 06:11 PM   #30862
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Also, all please refrain from personal insults. There's just no need.
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Old 11-22-2017, 08:39 PM   #30863
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

ya that works. but if a dev has autoformat on and edits that file going forward, then its gonna move the <sub> to a new line and thus introduce a space. dev will need to know to turn off autoformat and leave it as a single line, or the code reviewer will need to notice.

its very fragile it seems.
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Old 11-22-2017, 09:30 PM   #30864
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Maybe I misunderstood. The purpose of adding that comment line is that even with autoformat-on-save enabled, it will skip the autoformat of the troublesome line while still applying to the rest of the file. The effect should be identical to "something to wrap round all of it" ?
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Old 11-22-2017, 09:53 PM   #30865
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

one of the tricks here may be more useful: https://css-tricks.com/fighting-the-...lock-elements/
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Old 11-22-2017, 10:04 PM   #30866
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

In times I've hit stuff like this, there seems to be a few different options:

- what dave suggested, to put a linter ignore line before the troublesome line - common and seems good

- do something like const space = " " and then {space} - which seems kinda meh but I don't know why.

- do a bunch of {{}} wrapping maybe with a " " inside there somewhere - which to me seems similar to using regular expressions when they aren't necessary, but I don't know if it's bad or not.
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Old 11-22-2017, 10:20 PM   #30867
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

But yeah it does seem fragile. I don't know anything about Angular, but if I was faced with lots of these in React I'd probably rewrite my TileHeading so it worked like this:
Code:
<TileHeading title={title} subscript={sub} />
and always returned the proper output without spaces, presuming the TileHeading.js component will be edited almost never compared to pages using it, so even if fragile hacks are needed to make it look proper (they shouldn't be at this level, especially using DOM functions instead of JSX) it would last longer between breakages and be fixable in one spot.
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Old 11-23-2017, 04:58 AM   #30868
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by _dave_ View Post
Maybe I misunderstood. The purpose of adding that comment line is that even with autoformat-on-save enabled, it will skip the autoformat of the troublesome line while still applying to the rest of the file. The effect should be identical to "something to wrap round all of it" ?
no I was the one that misunderstood. didnt realize that was what the comment line was doing. I got it.

Thanks a lot.
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Old 11-23-2017, 12:52 PM   #30869
Mihkel05
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

cb,

Again you seem confused. There are no "technical people" (Whatever that means) at L8. They are all middle managers. Furthermore, I'm not sure that being director of engineering or product makes a meaningful difference to the questions I asked. I think this is a good example of you being pedantic, since clearly they are different roles, but it doesn't matter.

Thanks for offering your opinion tho.
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Old 11-23-2017, 01:50 PM   #30870
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

I'm pretty sure Candybar is right and Google has a non management technical track (or maybe better phrased as management-optional technical track).

On the management side of things you're right that it probably doesn't matter very much between specific roles. But its a meaningful question because if you're friend is looking to do a high level non-management role, their options are much more limited. There's just not as many companies that offer people meaningful technical responsibilities without also foisting management on them.
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Old 11-23-2017, 03:18 PM   #30871
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

jj,

You're conflating a T8 and an L8. I have no idea what cb thinks. Since a director of engineering is an L8 not a T8.
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Old 11-23-2017, 03:29 PM   #30872
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Possibly? I have no first hand experience. As I understood it L8 was the general level across all tracks and then you could be on the T, SRE, PM, or whatever tracks.
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Old 11-23-2017, 03:31 PM   #30873
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Just don't call me L8 for dinner
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Old 11-23-2017, 03:38 PM   #30874
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Isn't L8 like Guido level?
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Old 11-23-2017, 03:43 PM   #30875
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Not according to the internet.
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