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07-27-2017 , 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99
Recruiters suck.
When I build software to replace them one day, I'm going to run a marketing campaign called exactly this. I've thought about it for a while, I feel like if you saw an ad for this, you would be like "hmmm... maybe these people get it".
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07-27-2017 , 08:14 PM
Context: I'm a programming newb whose only experience is having taken the MIT python course on EDX a little under a year ago. Enjoyed it but found it pretty challenging. Been contemplating programming as a career post-pro poker but truthfully I know very little about the programming universe and what kinds of jobs are even out there.

Anyways, I was listening to the radio today and heard an add for a local boot camp in Ohio, Tech Elevator, that I immediately assumed would be lame. Upon doing more research, it actually looks pretty legit. However, the tuition seems a bit steep ($14k for 14 weeks). It's intended for either programmers looking to enhance their Java or .NET skills (platform available for each) or total/near total newbs such as myself. They claim a job placement of 90% and average salary increase of $24k.

I know it's a long shot, but does anyone have experience with this particular boot camp? Or, thoughts on reasonableness of the tuition or using boot camps as a springboard towards a programming career?
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07-27-2017 , 08:27 PM
GL on your bot.
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07-27-2017 , 08:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by karamazonk
Context: I'm a programming newb whose only experience is having taken the MIT python course on EDX a little under a year ago. Enjoyed it but found it pretty challenging. Been contemplating programming as a career post-pro poker but truthfully I know very little about the programming universe and what kinds of jobs are even out there.

Anyways, I was listening to the radio today and heard an add for a local boot camp in Ohio, Tech Elevator, that I immediately assumed would be lame. Upon doing more research, it actually looks pretty legit. However, the tuition seems a bit steep ($14k for 14 weeks). It's intended for either programmers looking to enhance their Java or .NET skills (platform available for each) or total/near total newbs such as myself. They claim a job placement of 90% and average salary increase of $24k.

I know it's a long shot, but does anyone have experience with this particular boot camp? Or, thoughts on reasonableness of the tuition or using boot camps as a springboard towards a programming career?
There's a few bootcamp-related threads in here, most recent is poster right above you Larry Legend just finished one and is about to start 1st programming job. If you go back in this thread several hundred posts you can prob find his posts before/during/after.

I think there's a chance Victor did this bootcamp?

edit: yes, he did! http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...ostcount=22167

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor
http://www.techelevator.com/

its in cleveland. i doubt anyone has heard of it. I am in the second class of all time. the guy who founded it had previously ran http://www.thesoftwareguild.com/
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07-27-2017 , 10:24 PM
I really need to write that post about my experience, just been so slammed recently.
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07-27-2017 , 11:57 PM
I have an issue that is driving me ****ing insane. My Chrome javascript console stops outputting log messages depending on what page I'm on. If I open a new tab this is what I get:

Quote:
> console.log('hi')
hi
<- undefined
Then I navigate to, well, just about any page really and it starts giving me this:

Quote:
> console.log('hi')
<- undefined
What the ****ing ****? This is driving me nuts. I've never really used manual console.log from the console itself before, so maybe I'm an idiot and there's an obvious reason.
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07-28-2017 , 01:44 AM
I see the same thing.

> console.log(2323);
< undefined

If you want to inspect variables just enter the variable name.
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07-28-2017 , 02:22 AM
I was trying to extract data off the page, by iterating over a bunch of elements and outputting the stuff I wanted so I could copy/paste the results. I ended up using document.write to do it.
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07-28-2017 , 03:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by _dave_
There's a few bootcamp-related threads in here, most recent is poster right above you Larry Legend just finished one and is about to start 1st programming job. If you go back in this thread several hundred posts you can prob find his posts before/during/after.

I think there's a chance Victor did this bootcamp?

edit: yes, he did! http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...ostcount=22167
Y'all are great. I really appreciate this. I messaged Victor and he already sent me a very helpful, informative response.
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07-28-2017 , 03:13 PM
So you'll need to keep track of the fork of the fork of the fork to get the version with bloatware? Nice! That's one to get people to pay for FOSS software...
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07-28-2017 , 05:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Legend
When I build software to replace them one day, I'm going to run a marketing campaign called exactly this. I've thought about it for a while, I feel like if you saw an ad for this, you would be like "hmmm... maybe these people get it".
I just feel like, no matter how many turtles you bat off the stack, at some point, you end up with a human. You can't automate cultural fit, preferences, and so on, and I feel like that's a large sticking point with many places I've interviewed with. Some interviewers are dress shirt and slacks while others are surrounded in a fog of meth clouds.

A recruiter ends up being a decent deal since they work on commission, and combing applications is time-consuming work. It's either cheaper or more convenient than taking a developer or other person off their day-to-day duties and sifting 300 applications after posting an ad on craigslist. The problem seems to me that recruiters are more sales-people than people with domain knowledge, so they are incentivized to do things a certain way, which often hurts the company and applicant more than they help.

Overall, I've had positive interactions with recruiters, discounting the bot-enhanced recruiters found on certain sites I won't name.
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07-28-2017 , 06:03 PM
Anyone have any thoughts on Observables vs. promises or other async methods? They seem kinda painful to me, but I don't have much experience with them to know the benefits.

This is some example code from a new microservice starter that someone at my work came up with (based on this typescript node starter library or a similar one I'm sure):

Code:
export class StarwarsService {

    public getPeopleById(id: number): Observable<People> {
        const loadedCharacter: AsyncSubject<People> = new AsyncSubject<People>();
        const url1_options = {
            method: 'GET',
            uri: 'http://swapi.co/api/people/' + id,
            resolveWithFullResponse: true,
            json: true,
            time: true,
            timeout: process.env.TIME_OUT
        };
        const url2_options = {
            method: 'GET',
            uri: 'http://swapi.co/api/planets/' + id,
            resolveWithFullResponse: true,
            json: true,
            time: true,
            timeout: process.env.TIME_OUT
        };
        const character: Observable<People> = Observable.fromPromise(rp(url1_options));
        const characterHomeworld: Observable<Planet> = Observable.fromPromise(rp(url2_options));

        Observable.forkJoin([character, characterHomeworld]).subscribe(
            results => {
                //     const result_0: People = JSON.parse(results[0]);
                //     const result_1: Planet = JSON.parse(results[1]);
                LOG.info(url1_options.uri, results[0].timings);
                LOG.info(url2_options.uri, results[1].timings);
                const result_0: People = results[0].body;
                const result_1: Planet = results[1].body;
                result_0.homeworld = result_1;
                loadedCharacter.next(result_0);
                loadedCharacter.complete();
            },
            err => {
                loadedCharacter.next(undefined);
                loadedCharacter.complete();
            });

        return loadedCharacter;
    }
}
Seems like a lot of code to essentially just make two API calls in parallel. Also I'm not sure I want to give offshore devs who just want to do some business logic an example that includes Observable.forkJoin().

Beyond that on a higher level - I'm not really sold on typescript with node. Auto-complete is awesome, compiler checking is pretty handy. But I haven't run into very many bugs or sticky situations in node that would have been prevented by strict type checking, and I don't like how webpack slows it down.

But mostly I'm worried that it tends to nudge node into a becoming a rails or java app - which kills a lot of the free-form loosey goosey advantages of programming in node. Doesn't help that the devs pushing this stuff at my company (this is the 2nd one I've had to deal with) are all Java developers.

It's also got MVC all over the place which I don't like in general and think is total overkill for a microservice.

Thoughts?
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07-28-2017 , 06:54 PM
My experience with TS is that its great when its working, but more often than not I run into some annoyance with a types definition not existing, or some config option going haywire. Im also undecided as a whole, but I do agree I havent run into a ton in just ES6 that makes me completely NEED types. I do like some of the regular programming practices being enforced for you though, stuff like private methods and interfaces
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07-28-2017 , 07:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99
Beyond that on a higher level - I'm not really sold on typescript with node. Auto-complete is awesome, compiler checking is pretty handy. But I haven't run into very many bugs or sticky situations in node that would have been prevented by strict type checking, and I don't like how webpack slows it down.

But mostly I'm worried that it tends to nudge node into a becoming a rails or java app - which kills a lot of the free-form loosey goosey advantages of programming in node. Doesn't help that the devs pushing this stuff at my company (this is the 2nd one I've had to deal with) are all Java developers.
I love TS. I think it helps in a couple ways - knowing that you can rely on your IDE/build process to tell you when something is broken in a refactor means you don't have to focus on all that **** yourself when changing interfaces or whatnot, leaving you open to concentrate on more important things and fix resulting errors later. And as a less experienced writer of JS, I'm sure I've made some mistakes in not knowing common callback signatures or whatever that the compiler has pointed out for me.

I also don't think it has to hinder the "free-form loosey goosey" stuff, a lot of time that can be addressed with templates (i.e. array.map<TypeIAmTransformingTo> still lets you do wild **** with type-checking) or, if absolutely necessary, forcing a variable to be of type `any` so that the compiler will stop yelling if you want to do some dumb **** with it. But I've been surprised both at
- how few the occasions are when I feel the need to do that, and
- how rare it's been for me to _not_ find type definitions available for any significant library I wanted to use
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07-29-2017 , 02:05 AM
daveT,

Everything you mentioned is easily improved by AI, and as a former sales person, the value of human interaction is wildly overstated.
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07-29-2017 , 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
+1. Very interesting. I suppose this will call for some open source projects in ML to get rid of the ads.

Think if Google expanded into this market. It would be hated for sure. Kite's just advertising itself to get the major buy-out deal that the major league tech companies do. WPWP.
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07-29-2017 , 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerowo
So you'll need to keep track of the fork of the fork of the fork to get the version with bloatware? Nice! That's one to get people to pay for FOSS software...
Code:
Kerowos-5k-iMac:rprog-data-ProgAssignment3-data kerowo$ ssh 192.168.56.101
kerowo have you done the Dew today?
kerowo@192.168.56.101's password:
Permission denied, please try again.
Focus Factor Extra Strength Brain Supplements help you remember passwords
kerowo@192.168.56.101's password: 
Last failed login: Sat Jun 24 02:55:30 PDT 2017 from 192.168.56.1 on ssh:notty
There was 1 failed login attempt since the last successful login.
Last login: Tue Jun 20 12:47:39 2017 from 192.168.56.1
Do you want to share this login with Facebook? [y][n]
[kerowo@localhost ~]$
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07-29-2017 , 11:08 AM
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07-29-2017 , 06:11 PM
Apparently, I have a phone chat on Monday. First one I've had since November 2016....

It's for DevOps (remote), which I've been contacted for many times in the past, but always declined since I have no clue what that means, and feel way under-qualified for.

It's nearly impossible to find any information that isn't pseudo-philosophy, but I'm guessing it means:

-- Write automated scripts and use tools for deployment, error catching, manage and replicate N then N+1 servers (version control, orchestration, containerization, CD, CI, etc).

-- Liaison dev, testing, ui, sysadmins, db admins to communicate (lot's of talk about bridging silos), as well as focus the group on what customers need. Is this closer to an assistant to the PM or something?

Is that a decent summary?
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07-29-2017 , 06:46 PM
Everyone uses the term devops to mean something different but it mostly seems like an IT type job specifically meant to support CI/CD type stuff. I would be happy to refer you to our devops guy if you'd like to pick his brain/prepare, he is quite good and pretty into the philosophy of devops. PM me if interested.
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07-29-2017 , 07:11 PM
It means instead of going into an office and logging into a bunch of servers you're responsible for and being able to walk over and talk to the developers trying to deploy stuff you'll do it from your home office and talk to people on Slack.
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07-29-2017 , 08:34 PM
From my experience the DevOps role requires a decent level of higher programming concepts. So very often an Ops guy who thinks he's just gonna write a few bash scripts is not a good fit. Nor is a programmer who hates linux and getting down and dirty with machine and software configs.

I always say that no one more crucial to our success 4 years ago in converting to a new stack with CI/CD - than the DevOps guy my boss found somehow. W/o him we would I'm sure we would have failed. W/o anyone else including me we probably would have muddled by.
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07-29-2017 , 09:22 PM
I only offered to do Python and this is what they want to interview me for...

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99
From my experience the DevOps role requires a decent level of higher programming concepts. So very often an Ops guy who thinks he's just gonna write a few bash scripts is not a good fit. Nor is a programmer who hates linux and getting down and dirty with machine and software configs.
Interesting insight.
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07-30-2017 , 07:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Legend
daveT,

Everything you mentioned is easily improved by AI, and as a former sales person, the value of human interaction is wildly overstated.
I think this is a solid idea and lots of the pain points can be replaced with automation. (Calling it AI might be a bit of a reach, since everything solved with AI stops being AI colloquially.) The current method of phone calls, sorted resumes, and little personal information silos is absurd.
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