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Old 09-07-2016, 09:29 PM   #25076
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxtower View Post
R is great for manipulating data and pulling stats out, but if he is trying automate oddball mundane tasks in his job, python or something more general might be better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV View Post
Yeah not R in the first instance. Python would be valuable to know. I know people in the finance industry and Python is very widely used. Depending on what sort of automation you want to do something like autohotkey/autoit/powershell might be better, but I doubt you'd regret learning Python.
I guess it depends on what is meant by "automate"

I suspect what he means is "people usually do this stuff manually in excel" in which case what you want is a top notch data manipulation environment. R is pretty good at that. I think it's *arguably* easier to learn than python per unit of productivity you get out of it.

If it's more like "I need to scrape data from this web page and combine it with data in this database and then serve the data as a PDF" then yeah, python is going to be much better.

Long term python is probably a really good choice. "Panda" which I mentioned before is, more or less, a replacement for R in the python language. I'm not really saying that python is a worse choice, but more that there are going to be more hurdles between being a novice and being productive.

At least, I think... tbh I have not done much R but I used to be a Matlab expert, and I believe they have a lot of similarities. I got a ton of mileage out of matlab + shell scripting when I was an engineering student.
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Old 09-07-2016, 10:02 PM   #25077
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV View Post
You're conflating two different ideas here though. One is to approach the situation you're in with a good attitude and try to learn as much as you can from it. I absolutely agree this is a good idea.
It's tough have a good attitude in regards to what you do when you have such a toxic attitude towards the tools you're using.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV View Post
But my post was about avoiding bad situations, which is something else entirely. Like your post starts with "If you're in some dead-end job where you happened to program in PHP" which, OK. But what if you're not yet in that job, or have an opportunity to move jobs?
There are dead-end jobs in any language and great jobs in any language. One way you don't end up in a dead-end job is by recognizing that a fashionable language does not make up for a bad situation. Lots of mediocre employers use trendy technologies to make up for the fact they do not otherwise offer a compelling opportunity. The two most desirable large tech employers are Google and Facebook and they are known for primarily being a Java shop and a PHP shop respectively.

Also, it's going to be tough for people who are prejudiced the way you come across to actually recognize genuinely interesting opportunities. In the 90's the attitude you're showing was generally held by C/C++ programmers who viewed any "easier" language with disdain and Lisp programmers who held less expressive languages in contempt. To these types of C/C++ programmers, Java was another VB-like language that no *real* programmer would ever touch and to Lisp programmers, Java was an unusably dumbed down version of Lisp with a C syntax to appease the riffraff.

Quote:
Anyone reading your post naively and literally would come away with the impression that there are no such things as better and worse technologies to work with for the advancement of one's career, which is just not true.
Do you think technologists tend to be biased in the direction of thinking that there are no differences between technologies? That's absurd. Technologists tend to err in the direction of dramatically overestimating differences between languages or for that matter between technologies in general. Also, to deal with the example at hand, PHP is not a bad language to work with for the advancement of one's career at any level. And this is context-dependent. What would be a great technology to learn for someone who's trying to move up from 150K-175K range to 250K-300K range may not be great for someone trying to move up from 50K-75K to 125K-150K range. There are regional variations as well. I don't feel that the three of you (ChrisV, Craggoo and goofy) are sufficiently well-aware of what's going on in the broader technology field to give appropriate advice here. And the further one is away from reaching one's potential, the less any of this really matters. Below a certain level, which Noodle is a long way from reaching, experience in terms of language virtually doesn't matter at all.

Quote:
So that's point 1, but the other thing is that your post comes loaded with assumptions, one of which is that all anyone ITT wants is to increase their earnings as quickly as possible.
You're moving the goalposts as you were the one implying that PHP is objectively bad for one's career. For example:

Quote:
Just at all costs avoid going down the path of becoming a PHP expert.
So now you're trying to say that well, being a PHP expert may be a great thing career-wise, but you personally don't like PHP and would rather take less money to do something else? How is that useful for anyone?

Quote:
Personally I'd take less money to not have to work with an unwieldy and internally inconsistent language,
Aside from thing being a completely useful statement of personal preference, it's also absurd because in any kind of real technology job, the programming language is by far the least unwieldy and inconsistent thing you'd be dealing with and the level of inconsistency in PHP is completely dwarfed by inconsistencies you have to deal with in the rest of the stack, let alone non-technical aspects of the job. Unless you're a mathematician, your entire job is about dealing with inconsistencies - internally consistent things don't demand a lot of human labor.

Quote:
in codebases which are almost invariably abominations.
There are good economic reasons for this but virtual all code bases that make a lot of money are abominations.

Quote:
It gives me less professional satisfaction to do that and generally leaves me wanting to shoot myself for most of the working day.
To me it reads like being more productive gives you less professional satisfaction. Again, unless your job is mathematics, no one is paying you to deal with consistent things because it doesn't add value.
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Old 09-07-2016, 10:40 PM   #25078
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

[Candybar] is on fire

Well said.
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Old 09-07-2016, 10:48 PM   #25079
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

After 20 years of programming just about all I have to say is that every codebase I have ever seen is a giant dumpster fire. I am sure there are exceptions out there, but I haven't seen one yet.

In my own personal projects I will occaisonally start with something that is (imo) well thought out and structured. By the time it can do anything useful I usually hate it.

I have always tried not to be a language bigot. I have usually failed. I have sometimes changed my mind.

Hah and one constant: no matter who's code I'm working on this week, THIS one is always the worst.

P.S. This one I'm working on right now, it really is the worst!
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Old 09-08-2016, 01:41 AM   #25080
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Trying to do a regular expression for the following:
Quote:
Numeric constants in C. These are octal, decimal, or hexidecimal integers, or decimal or
hexidecimal floating point values. A decimal integer must begin with a digit between 1-9.
An octal integer begins with 0, and may contain only the digits 0-7. A hexidecimal integer
begins with 0x or 0X, and may contain the digits 0-9 and a/A - f/F. A decimal floating
point value has a fractional portion (beginning with a dot) or an exponent (beginning
with E or e). Unlike a decimal integer, it is allowed to start with 0. A hexidecimal floating
point value has an optional fractional portion and a mandatory exponent (beginning with
P or p). In either decimal or hexidecimal floating point numbers, there may be digits
to the left of the dot, the right of the dot, or both, and the exponent itself is given in
decimal, with an optional leading + or - sign. An integer may end with an optional U
or u (indicating unsigned), and/or L or l (indicating long) or LL or ll (indicating long
long). A floating point value may end with an optional F or f (indicating oat - single
precision) or L or l (indicating long - double precision).
I'm wondering about the octals. I'm assuming 0135 is okay but 00135 is not okay. And also, 0 is not okay. This correct? They way they describe this, 0 should not be in the set of Numeric constants in C.
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Old 09-08-2016, 04:58 AM   #25081
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

This page describes 0 as a valid decimal integer, even though that breaks the rules they lay out. In any case, 0 is definitely a valid octal integer.

Edit: Also, I think it's a (really) bad idea to write a regexp that matches any valid C numerical constant. Write one for each possible type and try to match all of them. Will be a lot quicker (to write) and is way more understandable and maintainable to anyone encountering the code.
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Old 09-08-2016, 05:18 AM   #25082
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Re candybar's post, things I agree with:

- That there's nothing fundamentally wrong with PHP and writing code in it can be a reasonable choice from a business point of view.
- That there isn't a perfect correlation between languages/technologies being employed and quality of job. I disagree that there isn't a significant correlation, however. The example of Facebook is a bit of an outlier.
- That developers generally overrate how big a deal it is what languages etc are used. And in particular, that pet choices of nerd developers (like Lisp) can be counterproductive from a business point of view. I've ranted about that ITT before.
- That my "avoid at all costs" was hyperbole and was overstating the case. I was giving an opinion.

That brings me to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by candybar View Post
So now you're trying to say that well, being a PHP expert may be a great thing career-wise, but you personally don't like PHP and would rather take less money to do something else? How is that useful for anyone?
This is kind of the crux of it. I wouldn't care if you'd said "Craggo and ChrisV are wrong here imo, working in PHP is not an imposition". OK, we disagree. But what you actually said was that our posts were stupid and objectively wrong. Not liking PHP is hardly some weird vendetta peculiar to me. Polls generally show it to be among the most hated languages ever. So turning the question back on you, how is it "useful" for you to declare that people should be fine to work in PHP when all the evidence is that a lot of people aren't fine with it? Yours is the minority position here.
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Old 09-08-2016, 06:08 AM   #25083
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by candybar View Post
....
There are good economic reasons for this but virtual all code bases that make a lot of money are abominations.
...
.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyBrooks View Post
After 20 years of programming just about all I have to say is that every codebase I have ever seen is a giant dumpster fire. I am sure there are exceptions out there, but I haven't seen one yet.
......
Stating a codebase is an abomination isn't very descriptive. I think more detail would make for an interesting discussion.

I'll start:

-- Directory structures that are nested deeply where it is difficult to tell at first glance what is actually contained there.

-- Product builds that require complex build scripts because source files are pulled from many places and the logic of how things fit together is not clear.

-- Inconistent code documentation where standards are haphazardly applied.

-- Defective code.
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Old 09-08-2016, 06:19 AM   #25084
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV View Post
?..

This is kind of the crux of it. I wouldn't care if you'd said "Craggo and ChrisV are wrong here imo, working in PHP is not an imposition". OK, we disagree. But what you actually said was that our posts were stupid and objectively wrong. Not liking PHP is hardly some weird vendetta peculiar to me. Polls generally show it to be among the most hated languages ever. So turning the question back on you, how is it "useful" for you to declare that people should be fine to work in PHP when all the evidence is that a lot of people aren't fine with it? Yours is the minority position here.
Language snobbery is dumb.
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Old 09-08-2016, 09:07 AM   #25085
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by adios View Post
Stating a codebase is an abomination isn't very descriptive. I think more detail would make for an interesting discussion.
Some pet peeves of mine from recent jobs

- there are a bunch of modules. Each one has an api.py and a data.py. The api has a shim script that turns around and calls the data script. All the functions are named something like "delete", "get" etc

So first, everything becomes impossible to grep because literally everything is
import api from foo
...
api.get()

Second, although it's a nice idea to seperate the data layer so you can change your backend, the frontend shim's arguments are already tying it to the implementation (they contain mongo collection names, mongo query fragments, etc) so it's pointless

- inconsistent data identifiers - that same system had a thing called, say, "foo" in it, where foo is a type of record in a database. Identifiers for foo that existed:
123 - i.e. an integer
"c_123" - i.e. the same integer with the character c in front of it
"foo" - i.e. a short string
all of these uniquely identify the same entry in the database. Which one does a given function take? Apparently rand()

- all the code is in one or two files (and they're each many thousands of lines long)

- all the business logic is strewn throughout the system, and repeated. Like I'm working on something right now that validates API inputs. The validation is repeated (and not exactly the same!) for inserts, updates, "edit suggestions" and "accept edit suggestions" (the last 2 are endpoints where someone can suggest a change to your Foo and you can accept or deny it)

(AND fairly trivial validation takes up 10x as much code as it should because of copy paste validation of similar parameters)

- database abuse - my favorite recent one is that say that you have a table of Foo and each Foo can have multiple Bars. Normally in SQL you'd have a foo table, a bar table, and a foo_bar table that is just rows linking foo_id to bar_id. Not here!

Here we have an element of Foo called "bars" and when you want to add another bar, you
load the foo record
append to bars
save the foo record

- call stacks that are ridiculously deep/complicated because everything is shoved into some 3rd party framework that almost but not quite does what you want and almost does what it's documentation says
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Old 09-08-2016, 09:14 AM   #25086
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by adios View Post
Language snobbery is dumb.
perhaps the being stuck-up and ego-invested part is, but that some languages are much better than others is very real.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyBrooks View Post
Some pet peeves of mine from recent jobs

- there are a bunch of modules. Each one has an api.py and a data.py. The api has a shim script that turns around and calls the data script. All the functions are named something like "delete", "get" etc

So first, everything becomes impossible to grep because literally everything is
import api from foo
...
api.get()

Second, although it's a nice idea to seperate the data layer so you can change your backend, the frontend shim's arguments are already tying it to the implementation (they contain mongo collection names, mongo query fragments, etc) so it's pointless

- inconsistent data identifiers - that same system had a thing called, say, "foo" in it, where foo is a type of record in a database. Identifiers for foo that existed:
123 - i.e. an integer
"c_123" - i.e. the same integer with the character c in front of it
"foo" - i.e. a short string
all of these uniquely identify the same entry in the database. Which one does a given function take? Apparently rand()

- all the code is in one or two files (and they're each many thousands of lines long)

- all the business logic is strewn throughout the system, and repeated. Like I'm working on something right now that validates API inputs. The validation is repeated (and not exactly the same!) for inserts, updates, "edit suggestions" and "accept edit suggestions" (the last 2 are endpoints where someone can suggest a change to your Foo and you can accept or deny it)

(AND fairly trivial validation takes up 10x as much code as it should because of copy paste validation of similar parameters)

- database abuse - my favorite recent one is that say that you have a table of Foo and each Foo can have multiple Bars. Normally in SQL you'd have a foo table, a bar table, and a foo_bar table that is just rows linking foo_id to bar_id. Not here!

Here we have an element of Foo called "bars" and when you want to add another bar, you
load the foo record
append to bars
save the foo record

- call stacks that are ridiculously deep/complicated because everything is shoved into some 3rd party framework that almost but not quite does what you want and almost does what it's documentation says
nice list of examples!
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Old 09-08-2016, 10:26 AM   #25087
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryanb9 View Post
Trying to do a regular expression for the following:


I'm wondering about the octals. I'm assuming 0135 is okay but 00135 is not okay. And also, 0 is not okay. This correct? They way they describe this, 0 should not be in the set of Numeric constants in C.
This leads me to ask questions like "are their syntax checkers and how do they handle this" or "how does the C preprocessor handle this". I don't know your particular use case but using regexp intuitively doesn't seem like the right answer, though I may just be too ignorant about the subject.
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Old 09-08-2016, 11:19 AM   #25088
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

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I write a negative glassdoor review that is "pending" because I assume places like this have it in their pockets.
yeah as suspected my truthful, concise, non-vitriolic review was deleted, so **** that place. fyi.
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Old 09-08-2016, 01:20 PM   #25089
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

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Originally Posted by candybar View Post
Neither QA nor test automation isn't an objectively bad career choice. Also understanding how software design impacts test automation and vice versa is probably worth like 50K extra in annual compensation for mid-level software engineers. If you took your first job seriously and tried to learn as much about writing unit tests as you could, you'd be a better software engineer today and making more money.
This is such a load of ****, did you even read my post? I didn't go into my first job thinking "wow unit tests blow, I'm not going to take this seriously", my whole point was that I didn't know **** at that age and I went into it not knowing that writing unit tests all day sucks and isn't fun. You're right that that's my opinion and that it's not an objectively bad career choice, but with the experience I have today, I would wager that lots of programmers who enjoy development would not enjoy writing unit tests all day as a career, as I learned I didn't.

I did take my job seriously, and try to learn as much as I could from it, I just ultimately learned that I didn't enjoy it, and wrote a post expressing that I wish ~10 years ago someone had given me some advice about how some programming jobs are more enjoyable than others.

I didn't think that could be so controversial, but candybar has a bone to pick so jfc, here we are. I didn't like my first job writing unit tests and Craggoo and ChrisV think that there are more fulfilling directions Noodle could take his career than working with PHP forever, and candybar wants to go on for paragraphs and paragraphs about "well actually that could be a great career choice and you could make lots of money doing it", which nobody ever denied of course.
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Old 09-08-2016, 01:22 PM   #25090
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

That's total bull****. You should really post about it. https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerque...elete_reviews/ Post the full review here and maybe glassdoor will reply.
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Old 09-08-2016, 01:46 PM   #25091
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

eh too lazy and don't want to deal with the doxxing/outing thing. "Coincidentally" I got a rejection email yesterday (over a week late) so they clearly were notified of the post and probably flagged it and it was auto deleted or whatever. Maybe they'll get their act together, or not, what do I care. Good story to tell at meetups obv.
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Old 09-08-2016, 02:20 PM   #25092
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

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Originally Posted by goofyballer View Post
I didn't go into my first job thinking "wow unit tests blow, I'm not going to take this seriously", my whole point was that I didn't know **** at that age and I went into it not knowing that writing unit tests all day sucks and isn't fun.
Someone somewhere who washed out of a career in programming and went into project management is thinking:

"I wish someone told me that writing code all day sucks and isn't fun."

Quote:
You're right that that's my opinion and that it's not an objectively bad career choice, but with the experience I have today, I would wager that lots of programmers who enjoy development would not enjoy writing unit tests all day as a career, as I learned I didn't.
If you're a software engineer and you're not writing unit tests all day, you're probably doing something wrong.

Quote:
I wish ~10 years ago someone had given me some advice about how some programming jobs are more enjoyable than others.
And this is the exact kind of nonsense I'm pointing out. No one could have possibly given you appropriate advice about your own preference. And no one needs that kind of advice - if you don't like something, you will know, it's not something you need to be told.

And like ChrisV, you're backtracking:

Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer View Post
Au contraire, I think someone who's just starting out and thus has no long-term perspective on the potential directions of their career needs this kind of advice.
You're clearly insinuating that you have some kind of long-term perspective here about why career in QA or test automation or whatever is bad, above and beyond the fact that it's not enjoyable for you personally. Why does anyone need a long-term perspective to know that if you don't like something, you should probably try something else?

Quote:
if I did to make damn sure that I didn't become Guy Who Writes Unit Tests For A Living as a career (thankfully I made a 180 on my own and went into development).
Again, why does anyone have to be told this? If I got a job doing something and didn't enjoy it, why would I have to be told that I should not try to make that my long-term career?

All of this seems to me like you guys were trying to make a point at first about the inferiority of unit-test writing jobs and PHP programming jobs and are now trying to hide behind personal preferences.
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Old 09-08-2016, 02:33 PM   #25093
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer View Post
Craggoo and ChrisV think that there are more fulfilling directions Noodle could take his career than working with PHP forever
And I think there are more fulfilling directions most of you can take your careers than being stuck at a level where you think things other people have created that you're using define your careers. You need to start judging your career by the quality of things you create, not by the quality of things you use.
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Old 09-08-2016, 02:42 PM   #25094
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by candybar View Post
Someone somewhere who washed out of a career in programming and went into project management is thinking:

"I wish someone told me that writing code all day sucks and isn't fun."
This is a bull**** relativist argument that has no place in this forum. Acting like all opinions are worthless and we should only peddle in objectivity might be useful for dragging out internet arguments but isn't actually useful or interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by candybar View Post
And this is the exact kind of nonsense I'm pointing out. No one could have possibly given you appropriate advice about your own preference.
Wrong. Advice about other people's preferences could have better informed me what I'd be more likely to prefer, assuming I could identify common traits between myself and the people giving me advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by candybar View Post
All of this seems to me like you guys were
This is where you so often go wrong, man. All these wordbombs you write rely on incorrect assumptions to begin with. There's no backtracking here, you just launch off into your own little world about what you thought we were saying, and then build and build on it.
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Old 09-08-2016, 02:45 PM   #25095
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by gaming_mouse View Post
perhaps the being stuck-up and ego-invested part is, but that some languages are much better than others is very real.
Ok, fair enough.


Quote:
nice list of examples!
yep.
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Old 09-08-2016, 03:04 PM   #25096
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer View Post
This is a bull**** relativist argument that has no place in this forum. Acting like all opinions are worthless and we should only peddle in objectivity might be useful for dragging out internet arguments but isn't actually useful or interesting.
I don't agree at all. He didn't post anything deragatory, make a personal attack, whatever. He is just challenging your beliefs. How do you handle code reviews? Code reviews are about people critiquing something you take a lot of pride in doing so in my mind that is much harder to deal with than beliefs about how to manage a career.



Quote:
Wrong. Advice about other people's preferences could have better informed me what I'd be more likely to prefer, assuming I could identify common traits between myself and the people giving me advice.
My reaction to your negative remarks about writing unit tests as a primary assignment was that I disagreed with your assessment. I can see a lot of value for inexperienced developers in coding unit testS. Actually I can see a lot of value for any developer doing that at some point in their career.



Quote:
This is where you so often go wrong, man. All these wordbombs you write rely on incorrect assumptions to begin with. There's no backtracking here, you just launch off into your own little world about what you thought we were saying, and then build and build on it.

You're making it personal. He didn't and you shouldn't.
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Old 09-08-2016, 03:09 PM   #25097
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer View Post
This is a bull**** relativist argument that has no place in this forum. Acting like all opinions are worthless and we should only peddle in objectivity might be useful for dragging out internet arguments but isn't actually useful or interesting.
You can't on the one hand refuse to defend your point (unit testing as a career sucks) and hide behind personal preferences and on the other hand talk complain about relativism. If you think your preferences are more meaningful than a project manager thinking software engineering as a career sucks, then make the case.

And opinions are not the same thing as preferences.

Quote:
Wrong. Advice about other people's preferences could have better informed me what I'd be more likely to prefer, assuming I could identify common traits between myself and the people giving me advice.
Yet you have a lot of problems with my preferences.

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This is where you so often go wrong, man. All these wordbombs you write rely on incorrect assumptions to begin with. There's no backtracking here, you just launch off into your own little world about what you thought we were saying, and then build and build on it.
There's no incorrect assumption here - literally right after you hid behind "personal preferences" you went off about how I'm making a relativist argument. Make up your mind.
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Old 09-08-2016, 03:12 PM   #25098
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

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Originally Posted by adios View Post
My reaction to your negative remarks about writing unit tests as a primary assignment was that I disagreed with your assessment. I can see a lot of value for inexperienced developers in coding unit testS. Actually I can see a lot of value for any developer doing that at some point in their career.
That seems like a similar statement to candybar's - you can see value in it, which I also never disagreed with, but would you enjoy it? Would you go home from writing unit tests and feel fulfilled with what you're doing? I never said there aren't valuable things you could learn from it, I said I didn't like my job.

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Originally Posted by adios View Post
You're making it personal. He didn't and you shouldn't.
I certainly apologize if it's unwarranted, but candybar so often winds up misconstruing what his opponents are saying and torturing their positions into something they aren't - and not just with me, as his current discussion with ChrisV shows - that I find it harder and harder to believe it's just an accident. And engaging in bull**** like that just to "win" arguments on the internet is supremely annoying, and is certainly coloring my reaction to his posts at the moment.
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Old 09-08-2016, 03:15 PM   #25099
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

I've learned to not engage our own little Hen.ryVIII
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Old 09-08-2016, 03:49 PM   #25100
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Re: ** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer View Post
candybar so often winds up misconstruing what his opponents are saying and torturing their positions into something they aren't - and not just with me, as his current discussion with ChrisV shows - that I find it harder and harder to believe it's just an accident. And engaging in bull**** like that just to "win" arguments on the internet is supremely annoying, and is certainly coloring my reaction to his posts at the moment.
You're more guilty of this than I am but if I'm doing this and this bothers you, you should be able to point it out. I'm pretty much pointing things out as I see them and you're so wound up in this "must attack candybar because he makes me feel bad" mode that you're seeing things that aren't there. It's not my fault that some of you have these weirdly antagonistic views towards certain technologies and certain careers and get super emotional when you're called out on it. You literally have trouble believing that someone might enjoy something you didn't:

Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer View Post
would you enjoy it? Would you go home from writing unit tests and feel fulfilled with what you're doing?
I don't believe that anyone who would say something like this feels fulfilled with what they are doing. Fulfillment requires a certain level of respect for the human condition.

Btw, I fundamentally don't believe you guys. I don't think any of this has much to do with what you enjoy or don't. It seems to me that the lack of enjoyment came largely from the perceived lack of prestige, which would also explain the reaction here. People tend to be much more defensive and vocal about their preferences when they are derived from status-seeking than about their genuine preferences. It seems that you guys are still firm in your beliefs that there's something objectively inferior about a unit-testing career (can it be fulfilling? lol) or a PHP career (dem inconsistencies) but are somewhat ashamed to admit that.
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