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Old 01-13-2016, 10:57 PM   #26
karik
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Re: Online Bootcamp or Physical Classroom?

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Originally Posted by Grue View Post
I was you 4 years ago and am now a lead developer. Step one is decide what to do and specialize on it, I strongly recommend doing that over learning 5 different languages. Step two is to learn everything there is to know about it. The rest is easy.
Good job. I want to be like you
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Old 01-13-2016, 11:18 PM   #27
Baltimore Jones
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Re: Online Bootcamp or Physical Classroom?

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Why Viking over Odin? Job placement? Better core curriculum?

You have been a wealth of information BJ. I thank you.

PS How did you like the restaurant biz?

It is probably all of that yea, but check with them. The most important missing piece that Odin doesn't have would be a more in-depth section for a front-end framework like React or Angular; hopefully Viking has that.

Also very valuable would be being able to ask questions to TAs and pairing remotely with other students; I'm assuming that's part of it.

Restaurant business was okay, not the worst thing in the world.
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Old 01-13-2016, 11:23 PM   #28
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Online Bootcamp or Physical Classroom?

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In addition to being left brained, I am also a social animal and manager type (ENTJ). Do you suppose there would be any value in hanging around techie meetups and such, for purposes of forming a partnership with others? Because I have no tech skills atm l am not sure if my marketing/managerial qualities would benefit them, but then again that may be just what some of the more introverted types need???

It's possible, feels unlikely that you'd be able to land anything paid but I don't know. I'm imagining someone with a lame startup idea who would want you to cold call for them or something for equity.

Trying to break into sales or recruiting in tech might not be a bad idea to get your ball rolling.

Definitely go to meetups frequently once you've started to learn; all of them basically. The contracting job I landed from a meetup was immensely valuable, and it was really just a "beer drinking for JS fans" meetup. If you can connect well with people you'll be in a much better spot than a lot of the awkward bootcamp grads.
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Old 01-14-2016, 01:42 AM   #29
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Re: Online Bootcamp or Physical Classroom?

I would recommend against going to a bootcamp. There is nothing they teach you there that cannot be learned on your own online. Going into it I thought they would help teach me faster than I would learning online, but I found the opposite to be the case. I would end up going online for tutorials to try and learn what they were supposedly teaching me. For the second 6 weeks, you will basically be just working on group projects. There is very little instruction during this time. You could just as easily do it from home for free.

One of the lead 2 instructors is a graduate of the bootcamp who to my knowledge has never worked in the industry. I believe the other instructor may have industry experience but I am not sure. All of the TAs and tech mentors are grads obv. There is also a disconnect with about half the people having cs degrees. The course pace is generally geared toward them. Even if the have never touched web development they pick it up much faster. It is the difference between a nl pro learning plo, and someone who has never played professionally learning plo.

The biggest benefits are that you are surrounded by like minded people, but that is not worth 17000+ the cost of living. From talking to graduates, they tell me that job search support is basically being told to apply to tons of places. There is an internal job board but supposedly it is not very useful. If I had to do it again I would just do the odin project, do tutorials on https://scotch.io/, build 4 or 5 good projects and then just apply everywhere.

Last edited by penguinpoker; 01-14-2016 at 01:47 AM.
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Old 01-14-2016, 02:21 AM   #30
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Re: Online Bootcamp or Physical Classroom?

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There's extras that Viking has which Odin doesn't, just look them up. It doesn't hurt.
Viking looks/sounds amazing from what I can tell, which isn't much. But I don't know that Odin couldn't do the same for you. Sounds like Viking is the w2g however. I love their payback policy. That's fantastic!
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Old 01-14-2016, 02:24 AM   #31
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Re: Online Bootcamp or Physical Classroom?

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It's possible, feels unlikely that you'd be able to land anything paid but I don't know. I'm imagining someone with a lame startup idea who would want you to cold call for them or something for equity.
Indeed. This is exactly what I had in mind.
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Old 01-14-2016, 02:38 AM   #32
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Re: Online Bootcamp or Physical Classroom?

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Originally Posted by Ativan View Post
Viking looks/sounds amazing from what I can tell, which isn't much. But I don't know that Odin couldn't do the same for you. Sounds like Viking is the w2g however. I love their payback policy. That's fantastic!
As has been mentioned, you do group projects in AA and Viking, which isn't really possible in Odin unless you know someone else doing Odin. In real life, you'll likely work with other people in paired programming for your first job.

If you want a good idea if doing Odin is manageable alone, just do the full Web 101 course, and do it for like 4-6 hours per day until you're done. (At least thru web dev frameworks)

http://www.theodinproject.com/web-development-101

Even if you feel like it's not for you, you'll come out of it knowing syntax for Ruby, Rails, HTML, CSS, jquery, JavaScript, sql, rspec, and if you want to learn it, backbone, though the last one is optional.

That'll give you a HUGE leg up on anyone applying to Viking/AA
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Old 01-14-2016, 03:48 AM   #33
Baltimore Jones
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Re: Online Bootcamp or Physical Classroom?

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Originally Posted by penguinpoker View Post
I would recommend against going to a bootcamp. There is nothing they teach you there that cannot be learned on your own online. Going into it I thought they would help teach me faster than I would learning online, but I found the opposite to be the case. I would end up going online for tutorials to try and learn what they were supposedly teaching me. For the second 6 weeks, you will basically be just working on group projects. There is very little instruction during this time. You could just as easily do it from home for free.

One of the lead 2 instructors is a graduate of the bootcamp who to my knowledge has never worked in the industry. I believe the other instructor may have industry experience but I am not sure. All of the TAs and tech mentors are grads obv. There is also a disconnect with about half the people having cs degrees. The course pace is generally geared toward them. Even if the have never touched web development they pick it up much faster. It is the difference between a nl pro learning plo, and someone who has never played professionally learning plo.

The biggest benefits are that you are surrounded by like minded people, but that is not worth 17000+ the cost of living. From talking to graduates, they tell me that job search support is basically being told to apply to tons of places. There is an internal job board but supposedly it is not very useful. If I had to do it again I would just do the odin project, do tutorials on https://scotch.io/, build 4 or 5 good projects and then just apply everywhere.

Which bootcamp and where is an important piece of info here.
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Old 01-14-2016, 03:53 AM   #34
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Re: Online Bootcamp or Physical Classroom?

Hack Reactor, san francisco.
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Old 01-14-2016, 12:05 PM   #35
Baltimore Jones
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Re: Online Bootcamp or Physical Classroom?

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Hack Reactor, san francisco.

What point are you at?
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Old 01-14-2016, 04:57 PM   #36
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Re: Online Bootcamp or Physical Classroom?

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What are people's thoughts on http://www.freecodecamp.com/map ?
Mixed I'd say. Not as good as many people say it is. E.g. people have trouble with the "Bonfires" (JavaScript problems) and ask what they can do. I say "learn JavaScript elsewhere before going through Free Code Camp." But FCC did just expand their curriculum, including the JS part, so it's somewhat better. I'd still recommend a good book over it for learning JS as a new programmer however. Another example: the Wiki with solutions to the Bonfire problems is a mess. E.g. five different solutions for one problem, most of them not good enough that they should serve as example solutions. Clearly there's no editor in charge of those solutions: Wikipedia is better edited. Still, there's a lot of value in the site, and if you made it through the entire thing you'd have good skills.
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Old 01-16-2016, 02:12 PM   #37
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Re: Online Bootcamp or Physical Classroom?

OP- i would take about 2-3 weeks of self studying before going to a bootcamp. You should pick one language and at least get to know the basic syntax, and more importantly get familiar with writing, compiling, executing and debugging code at a basic level. Btw, do you have any regrets about staying in poker full time for so long?
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Old 01-16-2016, 07:19 PM   #38
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Re: Online Bootcamp or Physical Classroom?

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Originally Posted by Ativan View Post
In addition to being left brained, I am also a social animal and manager type (ENTJ). Do you suppose there would be any value in hanging around techie meetups and such, for purposes of forming a partnership with others? Because I have no tech skills atm l am not sure if my marketing/managerial qualities would benefit them, but then again that may be just what some of the more introverted types need???
left brained/right brained stuff is all hokum
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Old 01-18-2016, 10:11 AM   #39
Ativan
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Re: Online Bootcamp or Physical Classroom?

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OP- i would take about 2-3 weeks of self studying before going to a bootcamp. You should pick one language and at least get to know the basic syntax, and more importantly get familiar with writing, compiling, executing and debugging code at a basic level.
Will do. Thanks.

Quote:
Btw, do you have any regrets about staying in poker full time for so long?
Very much so. But in fairness I don't know what my life would've been like had I quit poker earlier. There is some grass looks greener syndrome involved with second guessing. Poker did allow me some priceless time with my family as well as comfortable earnings. The latter is just not really important to me anymore. I'm not sure if my indifference to finances is a result of years playing poker (which seems to make people jaded to money), or because of where I am in life atm. I truly love poker, poker theory, studying the game, and all geeky aspects about it. But it is a royal grind and there's a deep sense of lone wolf/isolation involved with playing full time. At least for me that's how I feel. Could be entirely different for someone else. Maybe that's even an asset to someone else. I am too outgoing to find happiness grinding online, however.
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Old 02-18-2016, 11:31 PM   #40
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Re: Online Bootcamp or Physical Classroom?

How are you progressing?

I am in the same boat as you. Learning Rails/CSS/HTML5/JAVA/JQUERY right now.
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Old 02-20-2016, 03:19 AM   #41
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Re: Online Bootcamp or Physical Classroom?

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How are you progressing?

I am in the same boat as you. Learning Rails/CSS/HTML5/JAVA/JQUERY right now.
Thats good but frontend frameworks are all the jazz now (react, angular, knockout, etc). If you have a good working knowledge of any of the major ones I would snap replace you with anyone on my team. Can you believe it that not a single person on my team can type? Seriously not a one. They are all stuck at maybe 40-50 wpm for regular text and all peck/hunt. I don't think I could type that slow even if i was blackout drunk.
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Old 02-20-2016, 08:03 AM   #42
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Re: Online Bootcamp or Physical Classroom?

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Originally Posted by Ativan View Post
Will do. Thanks.



Very much so. But in fairness I don't know what my life would've been like had I quit poker earlier. There is some grass looks greener syndrome involved with second guessing. Poker did allow me some priceless time with my family as well as comfortable earnings. The latter is just not really important to me anymore. I'm not sure if my indifference to finances is a result of years playing poker (which seems to make people jaded to money), or because of where I am in life atm. I truly love poker, poker theory, studying the game, and all geeky aspects about it. But it is a royal grind and there's a deep sense of lone wolf/isolation involved with playing full time. At least for me that's how I feel. Could be entirely different for someone else. Maybe that's even an asset to someone else. I am too outgoing to find happiness grinding online, however.
Yeah to make poker your primary source of income you have to put in the hours, it is a "labor intensive" activity. I played live many moons ago, then with the internet I played online exclusively, and after UIGEA I couldn't get into playing live again. Getting the number of hands in and the clientele hanging out in poker rooms wasn't my cup of tea.
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Old 02-20-2016, 11:41 AM   #43
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Re: Online Bootcamp or Physical Classroom?

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Thats good but frontend frameworks are all the jazz now (react, angular, knockout, etc). If you have a good working knowledge of any of the major ones I would snap replace you with anyone on my team. Can you believe it that not a single person on my team can type? Seriously not a one. They are all stuck at maybe 40-50 wpm for regular text and all peck/hunt. I don't think I could type that slow even if i was blackout drunk.
Why would you want to type fast if you are a software dev? Or do you mean it as an indicator of how efficient they are?
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Old 02-20-2016, 11:51 AM   #44
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Re: Online Bootcamp or Physical Classroom?

Well, I think it's kind of a mark of a person who doesn't spend very much time at a computer. Also, if you're looking at the keyboard while you're typing, you miss what's actually happening on the screen.
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Old 02-20-2016, 03:10 PM   #45
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Re: Online Bootcamp or Physical Classroom?

This lazy attitude spills over into the code they write.
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Old 02-20-2016, 03:23 PM   #46
Baltimore Jones
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Re: Online Bootcamp or Physical Classroom?

Typing speed certainly still helps, even if 90% of your time is spent looking through existing code and planning before actually writing anything.

I credit Sierra adventure games with making me a fast typer.
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Old 02-20-2016, 10:16 PM   #47
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Re: Online Bootcamp or Physical Classroom?

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Originally Posted by Craggoo View Post
I think anyone who has held a web dev job and been in a position where they had to work with a team will realize how clueless most people are. No one on my team can even answer basic js trick questions... like why does object a not equal object b when they look identical. They can't explain context/scope in js. These are all the sorts of things you just assume people know when its their job to know that stuff but most don't seem to (at least in my limited experience so far).
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Originally Posted by Craggoo View Post
Thats good but frontend frameworks are all the jazz now (react, angular, knockout, etc). If you have a good working knowledge of any of the major ones I would snap replace you with anyone on my team. Can you believe it that not a single person on my team can type? Seriously not a one. They are all stuck at maybe 40-50 wpm for regular text and all peck/hunt. I don't think I could type that slow even if i was blackout drunk.
I think you need to get a better job.
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Old 02-22-2016, 10:22 AM   #48
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Re: Online Bootcamp or Physical Classroom?

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after UIGEA I couldn't get into playing live again. Getting the number of hands in and the clientele hanging out in poker rooms wasn't my cup of tea.
I can very much relate.
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Old 02-22-2016, 12:22 PM   #49
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Re: Online Bootcamp or Physical Classroom?

40-50wpm is a lazy attitude? lolol
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Old 02-25-2016, 12:25 AM   #50
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Re: Online Bootcamp or Physical Classroom?

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I think you need to get a better job.
Thanks I know that. Everyone has to start somewhere.

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40-50wpm is a lazy attitude? lolol
Let me attempt a rephrase... someone who can't even master basic skills will take shortcuts wherever they can. Is that really the sort of person you want on your team?
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