Have you been able to get interviews?

I think you've taken a couple of steps already...1) you know what you want to do and are asking about how to get there 2) you have opinions on certain things.

I have been in programming since 86...I don't think Javascript is good or bad...I DO think it might be a little easier to get in via that route. I feel this is true since I believe the amount of demand for front end development is much higher...and back end is of course important, but is possibly more mission critical, so the experience needed is probably a higher bar.

I think the next step is see what meet ups you have around town. This will have folks that already have jobs. See if there is a Hackathon of any sort in your area. These would be non-paid events to create small demo apps..but you can read more online.... IF not, then possibly propose one. Be up front about your lack of experience. Ask if anyone could use some coding help, but be honest that your code will need review and help to make it production level. Possibly someone who has some contacts needs something small done. Doing all of this will show your enthusiasm and willingness to get better.

Don't listen to the haters that will disparage one language or another: if you see technologies listed in a job, someone needs it. Finally, get to know the buzzwords: you don't have to know them, but be familiar enough to identify what they are, and to be able to honestly say "Yes, I see Vue is another Javascript framework, but I don't have experience with that" "Typescript is coming on, and I read that it is a type-safe version of Javascript, but I'm not sure what that really means"

I used to manage technical training department. One thing I taught when I would tech school intro to PC classes is I would open a manual and read a random line. The number of jargon terms would be somewhere between 3 and 8. I would say to the class "this is your major barrier...where do you start? You have to loop through these words, look up what each one means, then loop back through again to fully understand..." That is the climb up the mountain.

I think I may have used that same Sam's book to jumpstart my Java Certification. I was Java certified in 98...keep at it, keep at it...

...one other thing...doesn't it strike people as strange that you can easily read how much the demand outstrips the supply of developers, and yet many of you cannot find a way to get an interview or be heard?

I may be really off base, but a lot of times, HR process puts a lot of filters on the ability for job seekers to solve open position issues. HR will put in place minimum requirements, and may not, probably will not pass along your information if you don't meet the requirements. IF at all possible GET YOUR STUFF IN FRONT OF THE MANAGER who has the need! They actually have problems to solve, and if you can suggest an arrangement that is zero financial risk for them, you might have an in.

Read as much Liz Ryan as you can.... https://www.forbes.com/sites/lizryan/#7157c4d4190e
She is a job seeker champion, and will really get you to rethink the candidate's relationship with the company,

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lizryan.../#37d8b6d79c29

Ya job seeking process is a joke

"demand outstrips the supply" is really hamstrung by "we decide what constitutes the supply" which as you say, involves a ton of gatekeeping.

I hired a guy recently and initially it was taking all my time because I was reading all these resumes and doing phone screens etc etc. Then I got told we had a strict policy of only hiring devs with CS degrees, preferably from top colleges. Well, that saved me a bunch of time, I could just throw away 90% of the resumes I had.

Also, I should probably resign and so should half of my colleagues.

Getting familiar with a JS framework (angular/react/vue/...) is way more productive than trying everything by yourself

If you don't like web dev you may still like devops. Also, if you know how to sysadmin, there's a lot of automation that can be implemented and sysadmin jobs are easier to land without a degree, especially if you manage to obtain some certifciations (linux: rhce/networking: ccna/windows/vmware/...)

It's true that java jobs are typically aimed at people with a formal education, same for things like ML, data science etc.

Getting involved in FOSS can boost your resume since you can tell people to look at your code on github

GL

No success yet. The head hunter guy that I talked to said places can get in the hundreds of applications for entry level positions. That isn't very encouraging.

GitHub seems like a good idea, but I try and visit projects and usually don't understand what I'm reading or how it is organized.

I had a couple places ask for references. I hate asking people to be references. I should probably get that in line though. I don't really have phone numbers of anyone other than family, my realtor, and loan officer.

I did get interviews from two car dealerships. One phone and one in person. I don't think I'll get an offer at either place though.

Factory work is so boring. Ughhhhhh. It definitely isn't healthy either.


I really wish the "demand outstrips the supply". Maybe it does and I just suck too much. I don't know though. I could probably do most things if I was to get a job, but without having a job in the field it is hard to know if I could do it or not.

Networking is my key in. I have to find the right key though.

I hear you, but there's a lot to be learned from plowing through it, especially by trying to change it. That is more or less what a new developers job is - get used to the code base and the build tools and the dev env and then try to do some work. Most jobs I start I feel pretty incompetent and confused at the beginning because there are a lot of things I don't know.

People will help you, sure, but the details of their code base are now easy to them and they won't think of it as weird or confusing.

There is no better way to learn to program than to do it, and if you're working alone it behooves you to look at other people's code/projects, because otherwise you don't learn the idioms of the language and common patterns.

Ya beat way to learn is to change some code and see how it changes the app/result.

Heh...I work with a lot of seasoned developers...and frankly, I wouldn't recommend taking lessons from half of these people. There are bad coders and terrible coders. You have to work with a lot of focused attention to have maintainable code. A lot of folks never get there really. This is where people earn the big bucks though, so in a way, the last poster is correct. Being able to figure out other people's code is a great skill, and there is not a good way in interviews to check for it. This is also why there are so many useless acronyms in the front end world: a lot of folks give in to the temptation of the fun and ease of inventing your own framework, rather than using and perfecting an existing one.

When you suggest Github, that's great, but give some guidance...which project would be a good starting point, etc. I've got code on there, but I wouldn't recommend it, since it is very specific to medical data sharing, and a lot of it would be pretty useless to understand.

If you read Liz Ryan, she gives a direct answer to those who say "I can't get work because I don't work in the field". She says, become a consultant. What does it require to be a consultant? Buy a few business cards that say you are a consultant, and start calling yourself a consultant...that's it. Suddenly you have a job in the field, and you can (half) truthfully claim you have time in the work. (I consulted for 5 years, we told a lot of half-truths)

Along with that, continue working in the tools. (Vue, Typescript, Git, Node, or pick your own alphabet soup) and build an app you want to use. How about a website that will take 2 cards, number of players and tell you what your odds of winning a Hold em hand would be? Just a suggestion though. Listen to what you sometimes say "I wish my computer would..." or if someone in your family makes a request.

Since it sounds like you have some financial means, also look into renting a server to host applications. It's not expensive, you will just have to make some choices on the types of technologies that it will support.

IMO this is a terrible mindset to have. Every dev knows something you don't. Never look down to another dev, no matter how green they are. In my experience, people who have this mindset are awful to work with and tend to jump from job to job every 1-2 years.


Yeet. I think this a very risky play.

1. You get into a project that's over your head, but you figure it out and learn a ton in the process.

2. You get into a project that's over your head, and the client lets you go after a week. Now you sit there with no income.

Ehh... I recommend trying to nab a junior dev role and stick it out for a while until you feel confident.

Nail on the head. Just make something. Anything. 100%.

C'mon man... It's 2019... Put your apps on GCP or AWS. Cloud technologies are very marketable.

Granted on the cloud play. How much does that run though? For someone who starts out, getting a hosting on a private server is pretty cheap, but if AWS or other services are comparable...yes, that is a better suggestion.

I know what you are saying about other devs. After decades in this business, I have settled on the philosophy of "the company owns your code, not you". When i look down on other developers, it's specifically in the clarity and maintainability of the code. My take is very specific to this company though. We have let isolated requirements drive development up and down the stack, which has led to terrible overall design and extreme brittleness. So, to take this back to the purposes of the thread: someone trying to break into the business should learn, can't avoid learning, from other devs, but stay critical. Say to yourself, why did they choose this over this?

On the criticism of consulting, yes, you need to stay somewhat honest about your abilities or you will get in trouble certainly, but it is more likely to get your foot in the door to legitimately claim you currently work with a consulting company, rather than as a house builder.

AWS and GCP have some free trials, which are great for educational purposes. I think the GCP one was for 365 days with 300$ you are given in your account to spend. I've used it for playing around with k8s and hadoop/spark and it was more than enough.

About the OP question - there's plenty of stuff online, so one can prepare well enough for intern/junior interviews. A problem could be if you don't know where to start from. From my experience I would suggest:

data structures and algorithms;
OOP;
design patterns or at least the most popular ones;
basic knowledge in multithreading

These are probably the most fundamental topics. When you're feeling confident in these, you could proceed with the web part and later any knowledge in Docker would be a huge plus.

Opening various projects in git right from the start can be very confusing. You can start with videos and tutorials - Pluralsight, Baeldung etc
Effective Java is a great read, too and recently had a new edition published.
GL

Yes man! You're never late if you have a strong desire to learn. It is very interesting and fun experience. I have been learning Java all by myself since I was 13. Everyone around me, my family especially, had discouraged me from doing this. They forced me to learn what's in the textbooks, instead of wasting time for some nonsense in front of a computer. But now, they realize the value of my decision.

This is the book I used to learn basic Java. It explains concepts nicely and effectively. The book is very easy to follow and uses a brain friendly, witty language.

After you can start learning online tutorials from here. Also, you can check here listed tutorial provided by programming community.