Lol nice. I would have gone with society is like a bird. It ****s on homeless people.

Since this thread is lolz I feel no problems commenting on this off hand.

1) Every ****ing dumb front line grunt thinks they have some deep insight into the problem despite the fact they have the smallest viewpoint, likely are the stupidest, and are paid the least. This is junior programmers in a nutshell. (And to varying degrees anyone that works on product day to day.)
2) Dunno how you could possibly engineer auto-save with functional defaults in the scheme of a larger piece of software. It is almost as if Spring would present an insurmountable level of problems and they could clearly not get solved with defaults that exist in Spring Boot.
3) This is why PM/BI/Architects/etc all get paid a lot more money (in some cases an order of magnitude or more) than senior engineers.

But whatever. Why would anyone give a **** about knowing how devices work and what they are used for by their userbase before trying to create a product? (Including the random people that use the wrong product and then ***** when their iron doesn't make an amazing grilled cheese.)

I remember seeing a Youtube video on how the world views beauty from men and women's perspectives and there were a lot of people in the comment section that got offended because the video made some generalizations about the sexes.

There is a lot of this stuff that goes on. If I was to make the claim that men are more prone to risky behavior than women, I would get a lot of nasty replies that I am sexist and that women can engage in risky behavior as well. When I try to assure them that I am talking about on a statistical level they can get pretty hostile and say that it is simply not true when clearly it is.

Obviously everyone on the left isn't this way just like there aren't people on the right that reject evolution. However, this group is larger than I'd like it to be. I wish I could say it is just fringe left people, but that isn't always the case.

I've spoken to some people about transgenders and what not. They act like it is only a physical thing, but really, the psychology is very different. Especially biologically. A trans woman has to continually take hormonal medicine in order to keep herself from exhibiting manliness. People on the left make it seem like you can just up and change your gender and boom you're a woman. Nope, not really.

There was also talk of eliminating mens and womens Olympics and just making it joint gender which I think is very unfair to women who have trained their whole lives just to make it into the Olympics. Men are biologically more athletic and would make it very hard for women to ever win or even qualify. I don't know if this would be true for all sports, but I can for sure say this for running. Men are generally faster runners. There were also people trying to advocate for trans women entering the Olympics in women events. This is completely ridiculous because a trans woman still has the biological advantages that a man would have. If you tell some people this, they backlash with sexism cries and that we choose what we are by what we identify as.

There are even differences between races of people. Asians are much more likely to be lactose intolerant than whites. There is also speculation that Ethiopian and Kenyan runners could biologically be faster than other ethnicities. There have not been any conclusive results for this possibility, however people on the left still get mad at the speculation.

There are also studies that show on average, asians score higher on IQ tests than whites and that blacks score even lower than both groups. There are environmental circumstances that could take place for this reasoning and may not actually be genetic. People are very dismissive about it possibly having genetic factors. This is very taboo and people from the left and right don't like talking about it. For what it is worth, it probably isn't a good thing for this kind of thing entering mainstream talk, because we have enough stuff going around as it is.

Sometimes, I hear people joke about jews controlling the world and being very wealthy. Is it possible that Jewish people are just biologically more prone to being intelligent? Maybe, maybe not. People scoff at the idea and say it is racist. It could just be a cultural thing though, but I don't think dismissing the idea that it could be biological is a worthy assumption.



Going back to the thing about not talking about race solving racial problems, take a look in the poker world. I never hear commenters talking about Phil Ivey as being a "great black poker player" he's just a "great poker player". The poker world doesn't have problems with race, because we don't make it a big deal.



The bird analogy for needing the left and the right is actually a good one. The left values empathy very highly. The right values authority, loyalty, rules, and tradition. When you start going too far to either side things start getting a little crazy.

TheGodson, I spent a lot of my commuting podcasting time listening to political debate complaining about extreme viewpoints. It's very very hard to know if these ridiculous beliefs come from the "core" of the left or the "fringe". I'm inclined to think the fringe, as I am inclined to think that creationism is fringe-right.

For example, nearly everyone I know IRL is liberal, but I'd bet that not a single one think combining men's and women's sports is even a remotely reasonable idea.

Fringe beliefs can become mainstream though.

I used to be pretty far left as a young adult. Two decades go by and now I find myself mostly centre-left with centre-right tendencies. Obviously I'm biased but I don't think my views have changed that drastically.

So you can argue that its important to be vigilant against abhorrent views that the fringe on either side espouses.

Oh I definitely agree. But that seems different than making a generalization like "the left ignores science!"

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

For sure, but for me it was a revelation that some parts of the left denies science to the point of vitriol. I was firmly of the belief that the extreme/religious-right had a monopoly on science denying and us lefties were the rational ones.

TheGodson,

First, interesting that you didn't actually answer my question.

Second, you had another big long post w/o any actual science or evidence. You alluded to youtube videos and studies - but thats not providing evidence. Some of the things you say are probably true (men on a statistical level are obviously more athletic in the vast majority of sports than women) and some are almost certainly discredited/or based on flawed assumptions (measuring "IQ" is extremely complex and needs to account for a very wide variety of factors).

Third, even if all of your assertions are true - you need to provide a link that says the current differences in income/employment/career success/etc. between various sexes/racists are actually caused by these innate differences. From skimming your posts I don't think you've even tried to tackle this part.

So...

This is where I'll just re-ask my original question. You said:

And I asked:

I'm not particularly interested in talking about any of the studies you alluded to or the link between differences and outcomes until we explore this a bit. One reason this is important is that all the arguments you're making would be just as valid 60 years ago (innate differences and all).

@jjshabado:

I'm going to say no. 60 years ago I believe it was different. 60 years ago there used to be drinking fountains that would say colored and white. The culture then was completely different. Having segregated drinking fountains is pretty much a statement that black people have cooties. Also, there were shops and restaurants that banned black people. This is unheard of today. Back then someone could say "I don't want to hire this guy because he is black" and it would be normal. Today it is against the law to not hire someone because of their race. If we were to ignore racial issues 60 years ago, then we'd still have the same things happening today.

Many years before that, there was lynching, so I guess you could say racial issues have gotten better over time. You could argue that by fighting for rights we have made progress which I would agree with. However, we have come to a point where rights are the same.

A black person can go into any store that any other person of another race can go into. He can drink from the same drinking fountains. Go to the same school. Achieve the same career as anyone else. The only thing that works against them now are stereotypes which are true for any other group of people as well.

I believe that a bigger deterrent of accomplishing things in life, such as a career or money comes down to household wealth. If you grew up poor you are going to be at such a huge disadvantage compared to someone that grew up rich. A large number of black people are poor. So it may appear that there are barriers for people of certain race when it is really a barrier from lack of wealth and connections.

With gender there are more women in jobs that were dominated by men and vice versa overall. If a woman wants to become an engineer it isn't so strange in our society. There are also male nurses too and it isn't unheard of. Women can now vote too. The only thing holding women or men back in a particular career is the stereotypes she/he faces.

Ok, great. So, a big problem with your posts about why racism isn't a problem is that they were equally applicable in the 60s. You didn't mention anything about segregation or being refused service. So clearly your first post is incomplete.

Keeping this scientific then, we need a more precise definition of what racism is and when it's a problem that needs active addressing.

One way to do that would be to say racism is solved when we have no laws on the books that discriminate against black people (note: you're not actually there in the US). But that misses a lot of problems with racism. So we need to look deeper to see how they're being treated. Taking an extreme example of black people are making 10 cents for every dollar a whites person made, we'd probably assume that there was some amount of systemic racism happening. Or at the very least we'd need to demonstrate how/why they don't deserve/earn more.

So, what metrics do you use to determine that racism doesn't exist (that also show it did exist when you believe to was a problem)?

Why don't you guys do a little thought experiment and switch the roles to something that is actually sexist - like the amount of males who work in early childhood education? Or maybe ask why medicine used to be dominated by men but now is about equal? Medicine is harder to accomplish than tech. Maybe the keyboards aren't built for female hands.

Good to see the leftist idiocy permeate across society. God forbid if men and women may actually (gasp!) be interested in different things.

Leftism is a mental disorder - do everything you can to free yourself of it.

JFC wil - go back to your cave.

lol wil

Maybe you're the one that should instead of spreading your social justice idiocy around and trying to denounce everyone who disagrees with you.

You people cause more damage to society than anyone. If anyone needs to go into a cave, it's you.

Kind of fun watching you guys get your whole world rolled back. Lol. And pretty soon you'll have to pay more for therapy!

You're not even making a coherent point with the small part of your post dedicated to making a point, and the rest is uncalled-for personal attack, as usual.

Now shoo, go to SMP or the POG thread or something. Shoo.

Sure I am. I laid it out. You can answer it or not. I'm sure you won't because you can't. It's because liberals are inherently dishonest about their arguments.

Women don't like tech, period. It's not the American White man that holds them down. Women in India go into tech. It's not because Indian men or Indian society is less discriminatory, they are more so. If women wanted to get into tech they could easily do so - just like they actually DID in medicine. They chose not to, of their own free will.

Face the facts - you're wrong. Not a little wrong, but loltastically wrong. It actually makes you look like an idiot, on top of being as dishonest as can be.

And, I'd challenge anyone to actually look up an area where there IS gender discrimination, like in early childhood education. Don't believe me, look it up yourselves. It's downright criminal in my opinion, but please, everyone come up with your own conclusions. Fire up the Googles.

lol wil's deplorable Nazi posting got P7 shut down and now he's a junkie looking for a fix, floating from forum to forum, seeking any place he can make his dumb political posts

There's nothing political about it. You people are dishonest morons spewing nonsense.

Women don't like tech. It's not a big deal, the world really is ok.

We have biological differences and it's completely natural for us to be interested in different things. It makes the world better, not worse, that we have different interests. I'm perfectly fine with women dominating early childhood education, but you aren't fine with men dominating tech. Why?

Are you fine with men dominating construction or working on power lines or becoming Navy SEALS? Why or why not?

lol you joined a forum for programmers because somewhere you detected a political discussion was taking place without you and you cannot exert any control over yourself

I came here to smack your idiot argument into next week, cuz. If you dont like it, see your way out of it.

lol wil

Hey, it’s kid puncher!

Typical response when I make people uncomfortable. You don't answer my questions or arguments because you can't. It's because deep down inside you absolutely know you're wrong, but you insist on spouting this nonsensical "we are all the same" worldview.

We are not the same. We have differences in biology and those differences manifest in society. It is really inconvenient for you that > 90% of underwater welders are men, and >90% of early childhood educators are women, eh? Medicine was dominated by men but now isn't. Tech is still dominated by men.

Why? Because (drumroll) women are more interested in fields that deal with people. Men are more interested in fields that deal with things. It dominates all sorts of professions. That's why women took over medicine but left the computers to men. It's completely natural and completely fine, and we see the same exact results across cultures and countries. This isn't rocket science, it's literally a joke how easy it is to figure out. If it was sexism we could just look to the Nordic countries and expect the percentages to be closer. Guess what? The disparity is WORSE.

We absolutely know the answer to this but it won't be reported because it goes against one agenda, and you can figure out what agenda that is.

All these things make you uncomfortable because you'd have to admit you're wrong about essentially everything, and you're too far down the rabbit-hole to do that. You are too deeply invested

Well, your entire worldview is wrong. That's why your response is "lolwil".

To be fair, "Women don't like tech" might be partially true. Of course, its likely related to the sexism in tech...

Anyway, lol at anyone that argues with Wil.