So, what's missing is this woman's suffrage moment in programming where all of a sudden they had the right to program?

In today's world, the barriers to programming are not very high at all. Computers are quite prevalent, and compilers are freely available. Perhaps it is not seen as cool to program as a woman in today's world, and that's a barrier, but to actually do code, most women can do it and choose not to. Perhaps their talents are driven towards something else as it's highly beneficial to spend your time on what your talent actually is.

And, it's also worth looking at gender norms, and how much they help and hinder the process of learning what your talent is. Objectively though, without the social pressure, you can sit in front of a computer, try programming yourself, and decide whether it's for you or not. For me, I got an immediate rush when I started programming. So, I also think it's possible addiction plays a role for good programmers from my personal experience.

no

just rambling.

Sean you've been all over the forum. Getting those posts up to 250 so you can go dormant for a few years then reappear?

James Damore Files a Class Action Lawsuit Against Google

Quote:

James Damore, a former Google engineer who was fired in August after posting a memo to an internal Google message board arguing that women may not be equally represented in tech because they are biologically less capable of engineering, has filed a class action lawsuit against the company in Santa Clara Superior Court in Northern California.

His claims: that Google unfairly discriminates against white men whose political views are unpopular with its executives.

Damore is joined in the 161-page suit by another former Google engineer named David Gudeman, who spent three years with Google working on a query engine. According to Gudeman’s LinkedIn profile, he left the company in December 2016 and has been self-employed since.

The lawsuit, filed by Dhillon Law Group, says it aims to represent all employees of Google who’ve been discriminated against due to their “perceived conservative political views by Google,” due to “their male gender by Google” and “due to their Caucasian race by Google.”

More specifically, it accuses Google of singling out, mistreating and systematically punishing and terminating employees who “expressed views deviating from the majority view at Google on political subjects raised in the workplace and relevant to Google’s employment policies and its business, such as ‘diversity’ hiring policies, ‘bias sensitivity’ or ‘social justice’…”

Damore isn’t holding back any punches here. According to his filing, Google employs “illegal hiring quotas to fill its desired percentages of women and favored minority candidates, and openly shames managers of business units who fail to meet their quotas—in the process, openly denigrating male and Caucasian employees as less favored than others.”

Keep rooting for the women haters Adios!

You are being a disingenuous a$$hole and stating something that is complete bullsh|t. Typical kerowo lying BS where when he disagrees with someone politically on many issues so he disparages them including lying. Nowhere did I post that I actually support his case yet that doesn't stop kerowo from lying. Please indicate the post(s) where I support women haters.

The outcome of this case may be interesting since it is a class action lawsuit.

In kerowo' s world view anyone who he doesn't agree with politically is racist and misogynistic,. Completely narrow minded view of the world. No doubt kerowo is a position of power at a company would be firing anyone who disagreed with him politically no matter how productive they were, no matter how technically competent they were, no matter how much they contributed positively to meeting team goals.

Also interesting that kerowo claims that Damore hates women. There isn't a shred of evidence that Damore hates women. A perfect example of kerowo being narrow minded. He doesn't agree with Damore's views on Google policy thus Damore is a woman hater.

#kerowodisingenuouspieceofsh|t

@_dave: Before your inevitable telling us to tone it down, I didn't start this. I think that kerowo has an obligation to provide an explanation as to why he accuses me of supporting women haters.

These Google Women Employees Don't Believe Damore is a Women Hater/

Damore has a girlfriend and She is a Feminist

This woman obviously doesn't believe Damore is a women hater

There's a lot of opinions that Damore is wrong in his conclusions and are offended by his memo. I just don't see much evidence that Damore is a woman hater as kerowo claims. Typical kerowo, when he doesn't agree with someone she disparages them. And as I've posted in this thread, I don't agree with Damore's conclusions in his memo. Nonetheless kerowo took a shot at me anyway. So typical.

Lol Damore has a black friend defense! Damore can a) not hate women and b) be biased against women in tech. Both things are possible at the same time.

Damore is a ****ing idiot who thinks you can just find random studies to support your vague premise that chicks don't have a tech-y brain - then wrap all that up in a big word salad and stamp science on it.

LOL

Adios, if you don’t want to be called a women hater stop posting about how you hate women.

It's a good thing adios is such a great poster who would never stoop to...

LOL what a sorry, angry hypocrite. Dude is probably in his 60s and preemptively crying to mods like "but he started it"

Has anyone read the law suit? The evidence in the class action lawsuit is pretty damning.

If you have any hint of conservative views, you are basically harassed and shamed until you either get fired or quit. This is why I believe any political views should just be left out of the workplace.

The evidence also shows how some people in the company really are trying to avoid hiring any white male. Straight up sexist and racist. But if that's what Google wants, :shrug:

thats bc "conservative" views are regressive, reprehensible and destructive.

Victor, I hope that's not serious....

I did temp work at Google in Austin. I can't make an accusation, but the visual evidence suggested that there was massive discrimination at Google. In particular:

1- everyone was under 30, except maybe 5 people

2- everyone was an 8 or above, or more precise, men were 8+, the women were 9+.

3- It was clearly liberal. I could definitely see how a conservative would be uncomfortable working there. It was a combination of the people and physical items laying about. Though as far as I was able to tell, most everyone was happy to work there.

4- The gender split really depended on the floor. One floor was more men, but the other floors were 90% women.

It's just observation and circumstance, but I know that, as a nearly 40 centrist white guy who isn't an 8+, I would feel very uncomfortable working there, and I'd fully suspect I'd have zero chance even if I walked in with 10 years experience working at the top gun companies.

ofc its serious. its the truth.

Then I suggest you try seeing a lot more of America before you write stuff like that again.

ok bro,

but ya know, I suggest you turn on the news and read some of the leading conservative views of today.

I'd like to know what evidence this is. Like, let's start from the basic high level numbers. Are white males under represented at Google?

If "conservative" means standard GOP beliefs, there's pretty clear evidence that he's right. I think there's a lot of reasonable conservative arguments to make - but those have basically been abandoned in the US - at least from those in positions of power and claiming to represent those views.

Using "man" in front of everything as a derisive term, congratulating single motherhood, burning down colleges because of guest speakers, and violently jumping your college classmates are all high-minded liberal values?

What of those democrat bastions of liberal ideas, the ghettos where there is high crime, everyone owns a gun, excessive domestic violence against women and children, extreme racism, and no resources to help people get out of poverty (except for those horrible conservatives who are running church programs).

It's not hard to paint all liberals as hypocrites and idiots. It's not fair of me to paint you like this and it's not fair of you to paint others like this.

If it matters, I've spent a lot of years in everything from the ghettos to the sticks, and in my observation, the "horrible Conservatives" are often far more aligned with what is commonly labeled as liberalism and progressive than those who self-identify as such.

Unless you turn off the stupid box and go out and get drunk with these people, you are talking out your ass.

I've been looking a bit into the case against Google. It actually paints a pretty bad picture.

While you are correct that white and asian men aren't under-represented at Google, entire departments were being publicly ridiculed for having less than 50 / 50 m / f parity while departments with more than 50% women were publicly congratulated (sales being the example where men are underrepresented).

Women were put on fast-tracks and given preferential treatment over men, while white men given harder tests and had slower hiring processes, and other things. A wrong doesn't make another wrong less wrong.

And as anyone who's been to the bay area would know, it's very difficult to hire women when there aren't any around. San Jose, for example, is over 60% men, so not only is the bay area fighting to hire from a pool of applicants that don't have an appropriate education, they are pulling from a population that is strongly male-dominated, which is why the city is nicknamed "Man Jose."

is this where I am supposed to swear up and down that I have been drunk in the ghetto more times than you?

Dave, I know there’s no point arguing with you on things like this, but I can’t let this pass without pointing out just how absurdly ****ing stupid this take is. There are two major parties in the US. One is actively making it harder for these people to get healthcare, actively making it harder for these people to vote and be represented, actively breaking up families through increased deportation and increased prison time for non violent offences, actively cutting back social programs, etc etc. And these church programs you talk about in these areas are almost all funded by non conservatives.


Let’s stop here for a second. So what’s your underlying belief then? That Google discriminated against white men, but they’re actually just so much better than everyone else that they STILL rise above this discrimination to be over represented?


Lol. Think about what you’re actually saying here. What are the two ‘wrongs’ in this quote?

As for the really strong evidence that is bad for Google, I think it only seems really bad to the people that are already completely convinced that the white male is a severely oppressed species that can still somehow rise above and occupy way more than its inherent share of wealth, power, and position.

This is where you enter in with a story where you got tossed on moonshine and tried to marry the watermelon queen.

Oh my...

We both agree on this...

Actually, the Obamacare law mandate stated that a company with more than 40 full time employees had to provide health care. For most of the poor, this meant that all full time employees were demoted to part-time workers, and in order to survive, they had to go get a second part time job to b/e. Many did in fact get the health care at the exchanges (to considerable financial sacrifice), but there was so many loopholes in the law that it was possible and likely to have your insurance dropped anyways.

The "increase in jobs" that was spouted was not an increase in full time jobs, but rather an increase in part time jobs. I'm sure these employees are super happy to work 50 to 60 hours a week instead of 40.

It slides both ways.

There are laws and they were enforced under Obama as well.

You should look up who signed off on minimum sentencing laws which caused the explosion in non-violent crimes.

Plus many Democratic states have very harsh 3 strike laws.

Have you ever needed to use these social programs that you are defending here?

Well, I'll be sure to visit the church of Google when I visit the Bay again.

Aren't most liberals atheists? Isn't that whole evolution thing the stuff that's picked on? What kind of atheist hypocrite supports knuckle-dragging Bible thumpers?

I feel like you are being intellectually dishonest here.

Is it fair to the employee that she would get an easy test to gain entry into your company? Would you do this at your company? What is the upside of doing this?

You do realize that men are punished quite a bit for being men these days, right?

You do realize that men are punished quite a bit for being men these days, right?
You do realize that men are punished quite a bit for being men these days, right?
You do realize that men are punished quite a bit for being men these days, right?
You do realize that men are punished quite a bit for being men these days, right?
You do realize that men are punished quite a bit for being men these days, right?
You do realize that men are punished quite a bit for being men these days, right?