It's not uncommon for people in ****ty situations to stay in ****ty situations for any number of reasons that don't make sense to people not in their situation. It doesn't make sense but it also shouldn't be used to mitigate how bad their situation is.

Pretty bad. People sacrifice a lot for a lot of different reasons. Especially when children or family are involved.

Ah so THIS is what got Wil banned? He's got a new account, but not in here yet I guess.

Fwiw I actually see it the way he does. So does Joe Rogan, which I guess will mean nothing in here. That said I really liked his podcast with Dalmore. Worth the watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ1JeII0eGo&t=2366s

good for you. now notice this is the "Programming" forum and realize you have no business here. and crawl back to your hole with the rest of the deplorables.

Not sure what you're getting at Victor, I actually have a comp sci degree and code when I absolutely need to. I worked in telecom for 12 years with just about every big player in the industry. There was absolutely nothing stopping anyone of any sex from being employed (and this was in CDN, USD, Chinese, Indian and European markets). I would argue that getting higher level promotions was absolutely harder for women. Most of the time the idea of taking time off to have children was viewed as a pretty big blocker in the management elite, and that was going to be held against you whether you wanted kids or not. But actually getting a job and making it up to manager? No issues at all, never once saw a narrative for keeping women out of the jobs. Some of the best people I worked with were women and they were promoted rapidly until Director was the promotion up for grabs.

Was no different in school. We just didn't see a lot of women in our classes, the engineers had the same dynamics. Those who were there were excellent, and they were few and far between. The schools were (and still are) starving for enrolment, so it was never much an issue of women being turned away. They literally weren't showing up to the programs. Btw the women in the programs were rarely white. Between comp sci, comp engineering, and mech engineering I think I knew 10 white girls. Before switching into computer science I was in human kinetics. Just the opposite, 95% white girls. Same school.

its pretty simple and obv what I am getting at.



you arent a member of this community regardless of how much you lie about your past.

I do see you in bfi kissing up to the nazi deplorables wil and toothsayer every chance you get.

and now I see you running here to defend your boy wil after finding out that he was banned in that bfi thread and just being aghast that it could happen.

lol hold on, wait

1) What past do you think I'm lying about? Because we can set up a wager with literally unlimited cap on the amount if you escrow. Will provide school transcripts, references, hiring letters, whatever you want.

Comp sci degree, worked with 3 of the 5 biggest telecom providers in the world on my resume, and was point guy for AT&T, Orange and others for disaster recovery. Worked directly with the missing 2 telco giants pretty much constantly when it came to interoperability. ATM and Frame Relay back bones, then GSM, then UMTS.

$10,000 wager work Victor? Wait on you to confirm. But we'll absolutely have to escrow.

2) You think Wil is my boy? lol I literally just ratted out his fake account. Your grasp on the situation is tenuous at best.

I'm actually trying to remember how many white female developers I worked alongside. I recall 2, versus 30-40 Asian or Indian ones (and that's not many either given the amount of products I worked). So the ratios I saw in school certainly carried over to the work place, and that's not super surprising since the schools were basically getting grads snapped up without even having jobs to put them in at the time.

Nothing about this is deplorable. This is my life experience. We can have a discussion about how California today is nothing like Canada's tech sector, and that my experiences were unique to lol Canada or that era. That said I worked at the very peak of globalization efforts with teams all over the world. I never worked with San Jose since I did nothing with Cisco or the IP side of the business. But all those other markets (Chicago, Shanghai, Paris, Rome, Bangalore and Mumbai, Melbourne, Hong Kong etc...) it's as I'm describing. I can fire off some emails to find out how much has changed. Something tells me the answer will be "not much".

Feel free to go back through the thread and respond to some of the posts where we eviscerate Damore's motivated reasoning and address pretty much every point you brought up. Don't expect us to regurgitate the whole argument for you.

Joe Rogan believes Bigfoot is possible btw - and had to be convinced there were mountain lions in California. Not exactly a man of science or deep study of nature. He's best when he sticks to UFC, comedy and other things he knows well.

yes I think you kiss up toothsayer and wil bc I have read your posts in bfi.

and as soon as you found out wil was banned you incredulously asked "why?" and came running to his final posts to defend him.

in a forum you have never posted in.

You can start here:

And here: https://www.economist.com/news/inter...nging-rebuttal

You can't just point to some random trait and say "that's science bro" while leaving 90% of the dots unconnected or inferred at best. That's exactly the kind of **** Rogan does and why no one should listen to him on those kinds of subjects.

Victor I literally ask why of any single long time poster when I find out about it. I'm always disappointed when it happens since the traffic on this site is dying. I was as surprised to see Cald and a few others with new accounts the other day. But let's not go confusing curiosity with something else.

As for the other thing, are we betting? Or can you find a way to get somewhere close to an admission that you might have been wrong about my background?

And Suzzer I'll certainly go read. Curious how it all relates to what I've lived, because like I said I've never seen the roadblocks in school or after school for women when it comes to tech. But if you told me they were socialized with some sort of bias at the grade school level, I might believe it. THAT I have no background in Victor.

I mean damn, I really try to do my best to at least have a reputation as being honest on here. Trolly and funny at times, sure. But an out and out liar? That ****'s cold Victor.

dude wtf are you even talking about? yes we know that there a tons fewer women in the tech/coding industry. thats not the argument.

you jumped into this thread and said you agreed with wil.

the guy who posted such gems as

Im gonna stop here but theres another page of bs, contradictions, and vitriol without a coherent point.

this is who you came into a forum in which have never participated and decided to stand up for.

ya bro lets up it to 100k

quote to confirm

no scratch that.

make it cool million.

Ok I certainly never said women could not code and could not excel at tech. Having read your posts on this page Suzzer, I'll mention right off the hop that I oppose the notion of that very strongly. Every woman I worked with was actually better at her job than most of her male counterparts (maybe because they felt they had to work twice as hard). But like I said, starting with school and then out from there, there was a massive lack of white women enrolled in these programs and applying to these jobs. I'd get to see the resume stacks eventually and it wasn't any better there. At least up here, there is a noticeable lack of women applying to these jobs and showing interest in the sector. I have absolutely no idea why, I don't claim to know why. At the dot com peak you literally just had to have some semblance of potential to get an interview. Women weren't showing up to them. I'll ding my friend who's a prof and find out how his enrolment looks now. Things may have changed since I was in school (it would be nice if they did).

rafiki, given nothing but your blanket defense of wil itt - I'm skeptical your "lived experience" is through the lens of anything but a woke MRA bro.

What are the terms?

I'll have to cap lower than a million, I can't escrow that much.

I don't know what an MRA bro is.

I vote liberal here. I'm Jewish, so most of my life here in Ottawa has been dealing with antisemitism since a pretty young age, so race and discrimination are sensitive topics for me. I've never met a minority or a woman who couldn't do the job as well or better than their cis male counterpart (if I'm using that right).

I'm really not sure what I'm being dragged into, I simply came to mention that I've never witnessed hiring discrimination against women in tech, or at the admissions level in school. Obviously coding is being championed with women in India and China because it's almost all I studied and worked alongside.

Beyond that, are any other words going to be put in my mouth?

The argument is there are a lot of subtle cues women get from very early ages to stay out of STEM, and the women that do wind up in the industry face an uphill climb to prove themselves that drives many of them off after a bad experience or two (image a poor woman who winds up with wil as her boss).

Therefore - we should take active countermeasures to a) lure more women into tech, and b) push back hard against the built-in stigma they face one there. That's it. Very simple.

Damore even says he agrees with all this, but then he goes into his "chicks be like feelings and people and hugs - not cold computer code" routine. He also says he's for the concept of diversity in tech, but can't name one any existing or conceivable program that can actually work. This is classic deflection argument where you concede the original point then undermine it the rest of the way. It's bull****.

I emphatically agree with this. What's interesting is how much mothers/female caretakers are contributing to this (which I wasn't expecting). My friend shared a video recently, I'll try to track it down. Basically showed male babies dressed as little girls, and the women would hand the babies the girl toys systematically, and vice versa for the boys. The problem is certainly systemic. And I have no doubt it contributes to what we see today. The general lack of "girl" toys in the space, etc...

Where I object is the idea of some sort of systematic refusal to hire women into technology. I've just never seen it. And given the slow speed of change, I'd think we'd go 40-50 more years without seeing dramatic changes in college/university enrolment. So I'm not sure how hitting hiring quotas is going to change this and still produce the best corporate results. The changes/improvements from where I'm standing need to happen in early childhood education and parenting for starters.

edit: found it

sorry bro. not worth it to me.

Yeah ok. Fair is fair, I've trolled you before.

But I trolled you on Lebron, and I thought it was humorous. I never doubted your sincerity or your history. Anyway let's just chalk this one up to you getting it wrong. I don't need you to say it.

Btw Victor I've always liked you on here. Not sure where the dislike comes from with regards to me. I think you'd probably get along with me pretty well irl. I'm actually an Asian woman.

Wil leaves a bad taste in the mouths of people who aren’t awful. Coming in taking wils side predisposed you to being an *******. If you don’t like make better choices.

But truthfully I still don't see the point of hiring quotas for women in tech, nor do I see discrimination in the hiring process. I think that's half of the discussion, is it not? Forcefully hiring women into tech to somehow make up for the disparity at the childhood and educational levels isn't fixing anything. Or at least I'm still unsure as to how it fixes anything.