Which do you want me to refute -- that it's downright criminal or that it's perfectly fine?

Is stormfront still down or what?

Oh come on dude, wtf, you too? I'm not a prick to anyone who isn't to me first.

It's absurd how many people here jumped off their fat asses to attack me. I'm perfectly reasonable and nice to anyone who treats me the same, you know that.

Hahahahahahaha just no self control whatsoever

I'm not giving you any "advice". I'm not telling you to get your teeth fixed or get yourself a decent haircut. I'm making the argument that the reason women are underrepresented in tech has nothing to do with discrimination.

Try to follow along, kid.

Your posts were posted about elsewhere, otherwise I wouldn't have looked.

Sometimes I'm a prick to people who weren't a prick to me, but have been pricks to other people. (including to general classes of people)

TODAY WE'RE ALL SUZZER!!!

The SJW comment got to you? My bad, bud.

This is the most fun I had in months.

wil, when everyone else in the room more or less gets along - but become gigantic *******s in dealing with you - you might want to ask yourself if the problem isn't them.

Hahahahahahaha

Insult insult insult assertion insult insult insult.

Yeah can't argue with that. wil wins

History predates this thread. Some of us that have wasted time trying to be civil with you now know better and know your woe-is-me I'm under attack act bull****.

lol wow, this is the sorriest thing I've read in months

Suzzer, firstly, put me on ignore or don't. Your constant dishonesty is annoying.

Secondly, and much more importantly, you are an SJW just like the majority of the posters on 2+2. The reason I clash with so many people is because you all share the same mindset of victimhood and oppression, which I disagree with. You, especially, should understand this since you are the one who constantly talks about "Chiefs Planet" (which no one gives a **** about) and the mindset of the posters over there.

This little social experiment is very telling. You couldn't refute my arguments, could you? You ran to the main politics forum to call for backup because you know my arguments are correct. You just can't admit you're wrong, just like every other SJW on this website.

You can't argue in good faith, so you attack me personally and bring up topics that have nothing to do with what we are arguing about. It's a cowardly way to debate anything, and I think you really need to reassess how you, in particular, come to your own conclusions.

You are indoctrined and bullied into a way of thinking. You don't question it, you simply MUST believe in it. I am willing to change my mind on a topic, you aren't. Who is really the tolerant, logical person here?

It's your life, live it how you wish. But from my perspective the way you are making your decisions are sad and pathetic as a person living in a liberal, western democracy. I think you're a disgrace.

Now put me on ignore and begone.

lol

Let's hope it was worth it.

Thank you

<3

Lolololol wil

I just came to say bless your soul Dave.

Dave 4 mod!

Bye bye, Will!

I appreciate your concerted effort to allow adult males to have more access to touching young children.

His banhammer cometh and that right soon.

I think that the debate is confusing to many people for many reasons. For example, I recently stayed in the Delta for 3 months. I'd bet you'd be surprised to know that whites and blacks tend to get along pretty darn good. They also marry each other. I knew two white guy / black girl couples personally.

This would have been absolutely unheard of in any city the 80s even. In fact, growing up in the 90s with limited racial options, me dating a black girl was an absolute no-no. I was "allowed" to date white or Asian (but not all Asian races). Those rules are definitely not a thing these days.

I currently live in a heterogeneous area, never lived in a "white" area, and had far more "minority" friends (and girlfriends) than white friends in my life, so this is the perspective as I've seen it.

There are two kinds of people I interact with: those that are too far gone and those that don't want to deal with it.

The too far gone sees a white guy and thinks that I'm the reason for all the world's problems. I obviously grew up behind picket fences and ruined my entire life.

The people who don't want to talk about it are exactly that: They will say "shut the **** up, [racial slang here], aren't we past all that in the year 2017." You see, when you hear two non-whites talking race, they tell each other to **** off and let it be done. They don't want to discuss it.

I've also never worked in a company that is majority white. Regardless of being Mexican, black, Chinese, whatever, they care about exactly one thing: Do you get **** done?

If someone does start with all that, the first time is a stink-eye. The second time is either getting fired or getting taken out back after work. Either way, there is no 3rd offense.

I think that the shift really happened somewhere in the 00's, but it depends on exactly where you are. As some 20-something once said to me: the old guard (over 40 or 50) needs to die for us to finally move past it all.

I think that so much of what people want to talk about when talking about race is really social and financial class. I think that, really, no one who grew up middle or upper class has any ****ing clue what racism is, and when people who really seen and experienced racism hear them talk, it sounds wrong because it really is wrong.

A simple metric: remember that Oscar-winning movie Crash? If you thought it was important, you have no clue what racism is.

I know this probably doesn't answer your question, but I'm only able to really talk from the perspective of low class / working class because that is my personal life experience. What you all are dealing with in the top 10% is a black box to me, thought what little I've seen is wildly misguided and silly, IMO.

Dave, when we talk about sexism / racism - we're not talking about men smacking women on the ass or people getting called the n-word.

Why would this surprise me? I'm not talking about open race warfare.


Oh dear Lord. We're not talking about racism at the "inter-marriage is illegal" level.

Uh, ok.


Uh...

This says a lot about you. You're classifying anybody that doesn't want to deal with racism at all as someone too far gone. You're not starting from a reasonable position here.

Lol, you're so ****ing delusional. The majority of people that are talking about institutional racism or white privilege don't blame individual white people for all the world's problems. They ARE trying to inform everyone that white people have a large number of structural advantages over black people in society. The goal is to even the playing field - not by removing the privileges of being white, but giving them to everyone.

When people complain about racism in policing they're not asking for white people to be shot more often. They're asking for black people to get the same latitude that white people get and not get shot as often.

Whether you personally believe they're right or wrong, this is a VERY large group of minority people. If you think they don't exist you need to open your eyes (OR more likely your minority friends/co-workers know your opinion and just don't want to actually talk to you about it).


Uh... ok? Regardless of how I think you're probably full of **** here, I'll give the benefit of the doubt and say - companies that aren't majority white aren't the main focus of people that are trying to address institutional sexism or racism.

Uh, ok?

Why? What metrics changed from the 90s to the late 00's?

Sure, this is part of it.

I have no idea what the **** this means. But its sounds pretty dumb.

My only guess is that you still don't even know what we're talking about when we talk about racism. Again, its not just people beating other people up because they're the wrong race or shouting mean words at each other.

I don't know much about movies. But this isn't a metric. It's gibberish.

Actually, it answers my question pretty well. Those of us who have spent any time talking about racism aren't surprised by your post at all. It's the good old "racism is one person being mean/violent to another person because they're different races" definition of racism.

That's not the definition of racism we're using. We're using:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism

So, first, your definition of racism still exists. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally. Or check hate crime stats. This **** happens all the time.

But, sure, its not as bad as it use to be. Older, explicitly racist, people are dying off and younger people are definitely less racist in the "Using the n-word" fashion.

But, and here's the thing, institutional racism IS A THING. Ignoring it may make you feel better, but it exists. This is just a sampling from a few minutes on wikipedia:

* "Studies in major cities such as Los Angeles and Baltimore show that communities of color have lower levels of access to parks and green space"
* "Unfortunately, race and class is a reliable indicator of how where industrial plants and waste facilities are located. Institutional environmental racism encompasses these land use decisions that contribute to health issues such as asthma obesity and diabetes"
* "A 2013 report by the American Civil Liberties Union found that blacks were "3.73 times more likely than whites to be arrested for marijuana possession", even though "blacks and whites use drugs, including marijuana, at similar rates."

And that doesn't cover things like employment issues, voting issues, etc.

Maybe, and I'm just throwing this out there, you should educate yourself outside of your personal experience?

I have no idea what you mean by top 10%.

jesus daveT. see that is exactly why I do everything I can to avoid discussing any sort of politics at work, and esp with ppl I respect. it may turn out that someone who I have respect and affinity for shows themself as daveT just did to hold, at best, misguided opinions, and possibly is a borderline deplorable.