I know how to write in C (not an expert by any means) and am now teaching myself C++. I have a few questions regarding:

a) Work availability for self taught programmers (with no relevant qualification)
b) Grassroots projects i could take part in (for free)
c) If you know of any programmer looking for an apprentice
d) Any online programmer communities you know of
e) Several code related questions

Thanks to anyone who can help.

I learned C++ about ten years ago. Learned it quite well.

I work in HR now.

I would suggest C# and web application development, in which case in you're intelligent its not hard to make it a career. I don't hear much about C++ anymore, but work availability for self-taught programmers is there is you have the motivation.

a) You'll have to get very lucky, but not impossible.
b) I don't imagine there are a lot of these. C/C++ is now very old. Newer languages/frameworks will have more collaborative projects going.
c) Best bet here depends on (b), finding a project you can contribute to and impressing somebody.
d) There are tons of online programming communities. Can you be more specific?
e) Are your questions too hard for google?

1) I can't tell, I am not working in this field.
2) Look up freshmeat.net. There is a great deal of projects you could try and collaborate on ranging from simple to very complex.
3) I don't.
4) GDNet and Cprogramming are great sites. Great articles and amazing community. Quite elitist also (some would take this as a bad thing, I don't).
5) If it is not against board rules I wouldn't mind to take a look at your code / questions if you post them here.

I am definetly not going to stop at C++ but i just figured its best for me to work from old -> new.

Thanks for the very inspiring advice.

Motivation is no prob for me because i (weirdly?) enjoy writing and just messing around (first with Scratch and now with C)

I would appreciate any links you can provide (does not have to be exclusive to C/C++ either). Is there one dominant community (eg the 2p2 for programmers?)

Obviously all the information is out there, its just that sometimes its a hassle to apply generic info to something i have written thus i would greatly benefit from something like the programmer version of 2p2 (some newbie friendly place where i can just post code and get input on it).

Thankfully I have dug up a great source of info (but i don't want to come across as spammy so PM me for it if anyone is interested). I have no doubt that i will come across code specific prob as i progress into C++ and will likely take you up on 5). I am making notes wherever possible / keeping things tidy so i can assure you that any code i request advice on won't be a huge cluster**** of text.

Thanks a tonne.

Rumors of C++'s demise are greatly exaggerated. http://www.langpop.com/

Great site, thanks.

Not weird at all. I don't know many software engineers that don't feel that way, or at least good ones that don't. I also meant to mention SQL, as being important. Even if for whatever reason it is never important, switching between the set-based languages and the imperatives is good exercise for development minds.

I know a little bit of C++. The reason so-called managed apps (Java, C#) have a high demand now I think is because companies/government want to program applications that don't need the level of power that C++ provides. Java/C# is more suited to this. C++ is used when building something from the ground up (video games, file systems, etc). Anyway, you can hire a tutor if you look online. I considered it, but ruled against. If I spend enough time with books I can learn an awful lot. Codeguru.com is good place to go for help, also.

C++ is becoming a fairly niche language at this point, but it's a good one to learn. If you are a good C++ programmer, working in most of the more modern languages will seem like child's play in comparison.

I've seen a decent number of job openings looking for C++ devs.

As for what's better, I would say Java and C# are more popular and have more openings. (I work as a C++ developer).

as for resources,
www.stackoverflow.com is the best programming website i've come across (not language-specific, it has everything). The number of intelligent people and great responses there is astounding.

This. As much as I love C++, I have to admit that it's use in most applications is rendered much more discutable considering the high-level languages that have been created in the last few years (managed C++, C#, Java...).

It's still a great tool and knowing it surely can make your life easier learning other languages (how easy is it to learn PHP when you have done C++ ? very).

Taught myself C++ 20 odd years ago, used it and other languages professionally a fair bit.

I'm far too out of date to give specific help/advice but I strongly advocate finding a project you are really interested in. There's nothing like getting totally absorbed in a programming project to force yourself to become extremely proficient in the language.

I also don't think the language matters that much. Master one and you can quickly master all the similar ones (and most of the others as well).

a) Need to be very lucky. Plenty of jobs with people with current working experience – what's new.
b) Several around, maybe older non web based ones. Best to fit in with other interests you may have.
c) Eh!
d) There will be, but I am not familial with them.
e) Yes? Spent ten years as a C++ programmer, mainly in the nineties. I worked with Microsoft Visual C++.

www.stackoverflow.com

The best site out there to ask anything about C++

why do you figure this? imo it's almost certainly a waste of time.

but if you insist you should check out:
http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/

i 2nd a vote for stackoverflow for asking questions.

also you can find pretty much any c++ book you want for free on usenet.

Just keep in mind that doing it for a living isn't always as fun. I completely ruined my love of programming by getting a job doing it.

It's not a waste of time. Most modern languages hide a lot of information from you and do a fair bit of magic in the background.

If you have a strong understanding of how the components of your computer interact with each other and what's actually be done at a code level to make this stuff happen you'll become a much better programmer.

C++ is a decent medium between "really low level, will probably make you go crazy" and "I'm dragging components around and writing a little bit of logic in between but pretty much have no idea what I'm doing, but stuff just works".

I strongly disagree with this. Most modern languages are good enough that you don't need to understand the low-level memory management stuff. Spending your time learning it is like spending your time learning about the chemical composition of paint, when your goal is to be a great artist.

You are much better off spending your time learning OO design patterns, or functional programming design patterns, or and other abstract design principles than you are learning about the nuances of the C++ new and delete operators and other things are essentially obsolete now because garbage collectors are so good.

For 95% of all applications, being a good programmer is about understanding good high-level design. In my experience, most people that disagree with this either don't understand high-level design, or else understand low-level details so well, and have spent so much time learning them, that they believe they must be important.

I really wish someone had given me this advice 15 years ago. OP, if you want some books, you can PM me.

Modern programming today is all about "good enough" because of how quickly computing power is scaling up. That in itself is a pretty big problem for reasons other than it being an actual problem (for now).

Time sensitive / critical applications will likely always be written in a low level language because the amount of overhead is less.

Look at Google. Why aren't they using .NET or even Python to serve all of their content? Because on a performance level it's not good enough. Most of their extremely time sensitive content is written in C++. This obviously falls out of the 95% case but my point was it's not a waste of time. There's always going to be time sensitive applications where squeezing out every last ounce of performance is of utmost importance.

Sure, I'm not saying it has no place.

It's just a very specific niche, and for the overwhelming majority of applications, it's not as if they are "good enough" but would have better been written in C. The high level language is usually the right choice on all fronts.

To take your google example, both python and java are also official languages used there. I'm not sure how the use breaks down, but I'd be willing to bet they aren't using C++ any place they don't have to.

If OP wants to learn modern computer programming, I don't see how you can argue that C++ is a better choice than something like python, haskell, or java, with a focus on learning high-level design.

If OP is specifically interested in understanding low-level details of how programs work, that is a different story. But that understanding will have very limited application to the actual writing of well crafted, well-designed real world programs.

There's no reason you can't learn high-level design while working in C++.

FWIW, the Google code base is pretty much all C++. Not just the time-critical stuff.

Okay, this thread looks as good as any to ask. I've been using VBA BS for several years in relation to various needs. I understand that's not saying a whole helluva lot, but I've developed a pretty good understanding of the logic. My Access Developer's Handbooks are tattered and torn, and I've built some pretty damned good stuff, if I do say so myself.

Anyway, if I were wanting to jump into the serious programming realm, what would my optimal first step be?

Thanks.