[QUOTE=Deuces McKracken;41455371]My main point is that the targeting o
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Originally Posted by Deuces McKracken
My main point is that the targeting of civilians was strategic (or a pure blunder later justified) and not vengeful or symbolic. I think we agree on that. Britain must have seen some strategic value in terror bombing. As for my point that the only purpose was terrorism, I was speaking to the original question regarding the pure targeting of civilians.
What "pure targeting of civilians" are we talking about? You seem to be confusing the targeting of cities with the targeting of civilians. They are not the same thing. The premise in OP was flawed. The RAF didn't switch to targeting civilians, they switched to targeting cities. The reasons are well-explained by poster Lord Cochrane and to a lesser extent by Mandor_TFL.
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Originally Posted by Deuces McKracken
I agree that there were other reasons to hit targets which also included taking out civilians. I don't agree with your theory of civilians and secondary military infrastructure as the obvious optimal strategic targets (though Britain obviously did think this), although later in the war that philosophy was advanced against Germany and Japan with LeMay.
It is not my theory. I am merely reporting the thinking of the time.
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Originally Posted by Deuces McKracken
I don't think the civilian bombing accomplished much and I don't think there is good reasoning behind it.
Again, what civilian bombing? The reasoning behind city bombing has already been explained. I agree that any notion of trying to win the war only by affecting civilian morale was misguided, but that was not main reason why cities were selected for bombing.
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Originally Posted by Deuces McKracken
When you're fighting a fascist state in a war you've got to beat their army...
I would usually tend to agree, though there were thinkers at the time who suggested wars could be won by strategic air power alone, and Sun Tzu would remind you that defeating the enemy in battle was not the highest form of strategic art.
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Originally Posted by Deuces McKracken
... and that's the only way to beat them.
In order to beat their army there may be other things you need to do. For instance, one of the main reasons for the failure of the German winter counter-offensive on the west front in December 1944 was a lack of fuel. The fuel shortage in turn was caused in part by strategic bombing of production areas, refineries, synthetic fuel factories, pipelines and railways.
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Originally Posted by Deuces McKracken
Russia beat them by beating their army, and it cost them.
Russia was well aware of the strategic importance and vulnerability of production facilities. That is why they went to such efforts to move much of their production east of the Urals, where it would be safe from strategic attacks.
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Originally Posted by Deuces McKracken
Looking at internal communications from the British government at the time would be the best way to figure out their thinking behind targeting civilians.
Perhaps looking at such communication would be the best way to determine whether they actually ever did target civilians.
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Originally Posted by Deuces McKracken
To another theory brought up earlier, I don't think the britsh targeting civilians was some clever gambit designed to trick germans into following suit and foregoing their optimal targets. If this appeared to work it was probably more of an illusion fostered by poor german intel.
I don't know whether the British attacked German cities in the hope it would provoke the Germans to stop attacking airfields, however, it is a fact that they switched from targeting airfields to targeting cities after Berlin was bombed, and that Hitler supported the bombing of London. When I referred to "diverting war effort away from the front" I had in mind the large number of AA guns, fire fighters and most especially fighter aircraft which were deployed for the defence of German population and production centres. 88s shooting at British bombers over Germany are not shooting at Russian tanks in the Ukraine. Me109s protecting home airspace are not defending against ground attack aircraft at the front. It is well documented that a major goal of the strategic air campaign against German cities was the fixing and destruction of air war assets.
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Originally Posted by Deuces McKracken
Indeed for the gambit theory to be true it would also have to be true that civilians were better targets all along and the germans restrained themselves from them initially. Even if we foolishly thought that civilians were better targets (or that germany thought this) we know that it would be highly unlikely for germans to restrain themselves from them for humanitarian or international law concerns, which they lacked completely.
You are misstating the gambit theory. It merely requires that war aims could be better achieved by attacking cities, not by by attacking civilians. You and OP are the ones asserting that the British switched to attacking civilians. I and most of the responders in this thread are asserting the British and Germans switched to attacking cities, which is not the same thing as switching to attacking civilians. If you want to assert that the switch was for the purpose of attacking civilians as the exclusive or primary target, the onus is on you to provide the supporting documentation. Two of the most famous attacks on cities by the Germans were the ongoing blitz of London and the major attacks on Coventry. Both cities were legitimate military targets. London had one of the most important ports in England, was a major land communicaton hub and housed all sorts of government installations. Coventry manufactured aircraft engines and munitions.