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Originally Posted by robert_utk
Churchill, almost at the dismay of his own war cabinet, absolutely refused to consider to make peace with Germany, which was the Nazi plan after the invasion of Great Britain was cancelled.
Hi robert_utk:
I don't think this is accurate. Germany decided not to invade Britain after their air war against Britain had essentially failed. The refusal of Churchill not to make peace with Germany was before the air war against the British homeland had started.
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That kept the fight going long enough for the USA to get into the war.
I see this type of statement a lot. But after Dunkirk, there was no guarantee the USA would eventually enter the war. Yes, it's true that the United States was helping Britain more and more, but didn't it take an attack by Japan and then a declaration of war by Germany (against the US) to get things really moving.
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Yes, Dunkirk was some rungood against the odds, but after that it was keep calm and carry on. Plus he gave the iron curtain speech after the war, predicting the cold war, and was almost always contrary to what other politicians in the UK were saying and doing throughout his career. Sure, eventually we would win without needing generals like Ike, Patton, Bradley, Monty, and the rest. But, no Churchill and no modern free Europe. It would be like an alternate universe episode of science fiction.
I agree with this. By the way, the PBS show Nova recently did a show on Dunkirk. I highly recommend it and this can be seen on their Internet site. One of the things I learned was that the Germans had developed an underwater mine that worked on magnetism which they thought would stop the big British ships from rescuing soldiers from Dunkirk. But the British figured out a way to beat it.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/militar...e-dunkirk.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/militar...et-weapon.html
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Also, how can we debate Civil War generals, when the war was caused by Lincoln’s election,
I agree that Lincoln's election led to the war.
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and eventually won with complete surrender because Lincoln insisted,
While Lincoln wanted a complete surrender the war was won, in my opinion, because a totally unknown General Grant showed up.
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and then the very same Lincoln welcomed back the entire Confederacy with open arms and generosity.
This was certainly Lincoln's plan. But it didn't happen. In reality there were two Civil Wars. The second one is known today as reconstruction and it was won by the South.
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Surely Lincoln is the most influential human re: the US Civil War. Almost any other President and the war either would not happen at all, or would end in compromise, or the Confederacy would have been treated like a conquered nation instead of legal US states that had temporarily been unlawful.
Unfortunately, the South was treated like a conquered nation. Lincoln's successor, Andrew Johnson, lost control of the government, the radical Republicans took over, and it went downhill from there.
While not the subject of this thread, one of the things that happened in the retelling of the Civil War is that Grant, instead of being portrayed as a great general who saved the Union and ended slavery, began to be portrayed as "Grant the Butcher" because of the high casualty rates. Thus his greatness is often overlooked.
By the way, in 1878 and 1888 Grant went on a tour of the world. One of the leaders he met was Otto von Bismark. From Wikipedia:
The two discussed military matters and in particular, the final stages of the Civil War, with Grant stressing that the Union Army fought to preserve the U.S. nation.[52] Bismarck complimented him for having saved the Union, where Grant replied, "not only save the Union, but destroy slavery"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_...ysses_S._Grant
Best wishes,
Mason