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History Discussion of History up to Circa 1990

View Poll Results: Of the big 4, which leader(s) do you despise?
Hitler alone 1 3.45%
Stalin alone 2 6.90%
FDR alone 3 10.34%
Churchill alone 0 0%
All of them 2 6.90%
None of them 0 0%
Hitler and Stalin 20 68.97%
FDR and Hitler 0 0%
Churchill, Stalin, Hitler 1 3.45%
Other, please list 0 0%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-06-2014, 03:06 PM   #1
thekid345
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How do you view the 4 Major leaders of WW2?

Which WW2 leader(s) do you despise? if any that is, and why?




The following short bio's are from wiki,



Franklin D Roosevelt


Was an American statesman and political leader who served as the 32nd President of the United States. A Democrat, he was elected four times and served from March 1933 to his death in April 1945. He was a central figure in world events during the mid-20th century, leading the United States during a time of worldwide economic depression and total war. A dominant leader of the Democratic Party, he built a New Deal Coalition that realigned American politics after 1932, as his New Deal domestic policies defined American liberalism for the middle third of the 20th century.
With the bouncy popular song "Happy Days Are Here Again" as his campaign theme, FDR defeated incumbent Republican Herbert Hoover in November 1932, at the depth of the Great Depression. Energized by his personal victory over polio, FDR's persistent optimism and activism contributed to a renewal of the national spirit.[2] Assisted by key aide Harry Hopkins, he worked closely with British Prime Minister Winston Churchill and Soviet leader Joseph Stalin in leading the Allies against Nazi Germany and Japan in World War II.

In his first hundred days in office, which began March 4, 1933, Roosevelt spearheaded major legislation and issued a profusion of executive orders that instituted the New Deal—a variety of programs designed to produce relief (government jobs for the unemployed), recovery (economic growth), and reform (through regulation of Wall Street, banks and transportation). The economy improved rapidly from 1933 to 1937, but then relapsed into a deep recession. The bipartisan Conservative Coalition that formed in 1937 prevented his packing the Supreme Court. For the rest of his days in office it blocked all proposals for major liberal legislation (apart from a minimum wage law). It abolished many of the relief programs when unemployment practically vanished during the war. Most of the regulations on business continued in effect until they ended about 1975–1985, except for the regulation of Wall Street by the Securities and Exchange Commission, which still exists. Along with several smaller programs, major surviving programs include the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, which was created in 1933, and Social Security, which Congress passed in 1935.
As World War II loomed after 1938, with the Japanese invasion of China and the aggression of Nazi Germany, FDR gave strong diplomatic and financial support to China and Great Britain, while remaining officially neutral. His goal was to make America the "Arsenal of Democracy" which would supply munitions to the Allies. In March 1941, Roosevelt, with Congressional approval, provided Lend-Lease aid to the countries fighting against Nazi Germany with England, Scotland, and Wales. With very strong national support, he made war on Japan and Germany after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941, calling it a "date which will live in infamy". He supervised the mobilization of the U.S. economy to support the Allied war effort. As an active military leader, Roosevelt implemented an overall war strategy on two fronts that ended in the defeat of the Axis Powers and the development of the world's first Nuclear bomb (commonly called the atom bomb at the time). In 1942 Roosevelt ordered the internment of 100,000
Japanese American civilians.

Unemployment dropped to 2%, relief programs largely ended, and the industrial economy grew rapidly to new heights as millions of people moved to new jobs in war centers, and 16 million men and 300,000 women were drafted or volunteered for military service. All economic sectors grew during the war. Farm output went from an index (by volume) of 106 in 1939 to 128 in 1943. Coal output went from 446 million tons in 1939 to 651 in 1943; oil from 1.3 billion barrels to 1.5 billion. Manufacturing output doubled, from an index of 109 in 1939 to 239 in 1943. Railroads strained to move it all to market, from an output of 13.6 billion loaded car miles in 1939 to 23.3 in 1943.[3]
Roosevelt dominated the American political scene during the twelve years of his presidency, and his policies and ideas continued to have significant impacts for decades afterward. He orchestrated the realignment of voters that created the Fifth Party System. FDR's New Deal Coalition united labor unions, big city machines, white ethnics, African Americans, and rural white Southerners. His work also influenced the later creation of the United Nations and Bretton Woods. Roosevelt is consistently rated by scholars as one of the top three U.S. Presidents, along with Abraham Lincoln and George Washington.



Adolf Hitler

Was an Austrian-born German politician and the leader of the Nazi Party (German: Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP); National Socialist German Workers Party). He was chancellor of Germany from 1933 to 1945 and dictator of Nazi Germany (as Führer und Reichskanzler) from 1934 to 1945. Hitler was at the centre of Nazi Germany, World War II in Europe, and the Holocaust.

Hitler was a decorated veteran of World War I. He joined the German Workers' Party (precursor of the NSDAP) in 1919, and became leader of the NSDAP in 1921. In 1923, he attempted a coup in Munich to seize power. The failed coup resulted in Hitler's imprisonment, during which time he wrote his memoir, Mein Kampf (My Struggle). After his release in 1924, Hitler gained popular support by attacking the Treaty of Versailles and promoting Pan-Germanism, antisemitism, and anti-communism with charismatic oratory and Nazi propaganda. Hitler frequently denounced international capitalism and communism as being part of a Jewish conspiracy.

Hitler's Nazi Party became the largest democratically elected party in the German Reichstag, leading to his appointment as chancellor in 1933. Following fresh elections won by his coalition, the Reichstag passed the Enabling Act, which began the process of transforming the Weimar Republic into the Third Reich, a single-party dictatorship based on the totalitarian and autocratic ideology of National Socialism. Hitler aimed to eliminate Jews from Germany and establish a New Order to counter what he saw as the injustice of the post-World War I international order dominated by Britain and France. His first six years in power resulted in rapid economic recovery from the Great Depression, the denunciation of restrictions imposed on Germany after World War I, and the annexation of territories that were home to millions of ethnic Germans, actions which gave him significant popular support.

Hitler actively sought Lebensraum ("living space") for the German people. His aggressive foreign policy is considered to be the primary cause of the outbreak of World War II in Europe. He directed large-scale rearmament and on 1 September 1939 invaded Poland, resulting in British and French declarations of war on Germany. In June 1941, Hitler ordered an invasion of the Soviet Union. By the end of 1941 German forces and their European allies occupied most of Europe and North Africa. Failure to defeat the Soviets and the entry of the United States into the war forced Germany onto the defensive and it suffered a series of escalating defeats, partly because of Hitler's countless military blunders. In the final days of the war, during the Battle of Berlin in 1945, Hitler married his long-time lover, Eva Braun. On 30 April 1945, less than two days later, the two committed suicide to avoid capture by the Red Army, and their corpses were burned. Under Hitler's leadership and racially motivated ideology, the regime was responsible for the genocide of at least 5.5 million Jews, and millions of other victims whom he and his followers deemed racially inferior.



Winston Churchill


Was a British politician who was the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom from 1940 to 1945 and again from 1951 to 1955. Widely regarded as one of the greatest wartime leaders of the 20th century, Churchill was also an officer in the British Army, a historian, a writer, and an artist. He is the only British Prime Minister to have won the Nobel Prize in Literature, and was the first person to be made an honorary citizen of the United States.
Churchill was born into the aristocratic family of the Dukes of Marlborough, a branch of the Spencer family. His father, Lord Randolph Churchill, was a charismatic politician who served as Chancellor of the Exchequer; his mother, Jennie Jerome, was an American socialite. As a young army officer, he saw action in British India, the Sudan, and the Second Boer War. He gained fame as a war correspondent and wrote books about his campaigns.
At the forefront of politics for fifty years, he held many political and cabinet positions. Before the First World War, he served as President of the Board of Trade, Home Secretary, and First Lord of the Admiralty as part of the Asquith Liberal government. During the war, he continued as First Lord of the Admiralty until the disastrous Gallipoli Campaign caused his departure from government. He then briefly resumed active army service on the Western Front as commander of the 6th Battalion of the Royal Scots Fusiliers. He returned to government as Minister of Munitions, Secretary of State for War, and Secretary of State for Air. After the War, Churchill served as Chancellor of the Exchequer in the Conservative (Baldwin) government of 1924–29, controversially returning the pound sterling in 1925 to the gold standard at its pre-war parity, a move widely seen as creating deflationary pressure on the UK economy. Also controversial were his opposition to increased home rule for India and his resistance to the 1936 abdication of Edward VIII.

Out of office and politically "in the wilderness" during the 1930s, Churchill took the lead in warning about Nazi Germany and in campaigning for rearmament. At the outbreak of the Second World War, he was again appointed First Lord of the Admiralty. Following the resignation of Neville Chamberlain on 10 May 1940, Churchill became Prime Minister. His steadfast refusal to consider defeat, surrender, or a compromise peace helped inspire British resistance, especially during the difficult early days of the War when Britain stood alone in its active opposition to Adolf Hitler. Churchill was particularly noted for his speeches and radio broadcasts, which helped inspire the British people. He led Britain as Prime Minister until victory over Nazi Germany had been secured.
After the Conservative Party lost the 1945 election, he became Leader of the Opposition to the Labour Government. After winning the 1951 election, he again became Prime Minister, before retiring in 1955. Upon his death, Elizabeth II granted him the honour of a state funeral, which saw one of the largest assemblies of world statesmen in history.[1] Named the Greatest Briton of all time in a 2002 poll, Churchill is widely regarded as being among the most influential people in British history, consistently ranking well in opinion polls of Prime Ministers of the United Kingdom.


Joesph Stalin

Was the leader of the Soviet Union from the mid-1920s until his death in 1953.Among the Bolshevik revolutionaries who took part in the Russian Revolution of 1917, Stalin was appointed general secretary of the party's Central Committee in 1922. He subsequently managed to consolidate power following the 1924 death of Vladimir Lenin through suppressing Lenin's criticisms (in the postscript of his testament) and expanding the functions of his role, all the while eliminating any opposition. By the late 1920s, he was the unchallenged leader of the Soviet Union. He remained general secretary until the post was abolished in 1952, concurrently serving as the Premier of the Soviet Union from 1941 onward.

Under Stalin's rule, the concept of "socialism in one country" became a central tenet of Soviet society. He replaced the New Economic Policy introduced by Lenin in the early 1920s with a highly centralised command economy, launching a period of industrialization and collectivization that resulted in the rapid transformation of the USSR from an agrarian society into an industrial power.[2] However, the economic changes coincided with the imprisonment of millions of people in correctional labour camps[3] and the deportation of many others to remote areas.[3] The initial upheaval in agriculture disrupted food production and contributed to the catastrophic Soviet famine of 1932–1933, known as the Holodomor in Ukraine. Later, in a period that lasted from 1936 to 1939, Stalin instituted a campaign against alleged enemies within his regime, called the Great Purge, in which hundreds of thousands were executed. Major figures in the Communist Party, such as the old Bolsheviks, Leon Trotsky, and several Red Army leaders, were killed after being convicted of plotting to overthrow the government and Stalin.[4]
In August 1939, Stalin entered into a non-aggression pact with Nazi Germany that divided their influence and territory within Eastern Europe, resulting in their invasion of Poland in September of that year, but Germany later violated the agreement and launched a massive invasion of the Soviet Union in June 1941. Despite heavy human and territorial losses, Soviet forces managed to halt the Nazi incursion after the decisive Battles of Moscow and Stalingrad. After defeating the Axis powers on the Eastern Front, the Red Army captured Berlin in May 1945, effectively ending the war in Europe for the Allies.[5][6] The Soviet Union subsequently emerged as one of two recognized world superpowers, the other being the United States.[7] The Yalta and Potsdam conferences established communist governments loyal to the Soviet Union in the Eastern Bloc countries as buffer states, which Stalin deemed necessary in case of another invasion. He also fostered close relations with Mao Zedong in China and Kim Il-sung in North Korea.
Stalin led the Soviet Union through its post-war reconstruction phase, which saw a significant rise in tension with the Western world that would later be known as the Cold War. During this period, the USSR became the second country in the world to successfully develop a nuclear weapon, as well as launching the Great Plan for the Transformation of Nature in response to another widespread famine and the Great Construction Projects of Communism. In the years following his death, Stalin and his regime have been condemned on numerous occasions, most notably in 1956 when his successor Nikita Khrushchev denounced his legacy and initiated a process of de-Stalinization. He remains a controversial figure today, with many regarding him as a tyrant[8] similar to his wartime enemy Adolf Hitler; however, popular opinion within the Russian Federation is mixed.[9][10][11]




I'm having a tough time deciding on Stalin, I'm fully aware of what Stalin did to the Polish officers for example. But then again, did Stalin not redeem himself when he and the Russian army were part of the Allies. I understand that Stalin was not at the front lines like the Russian troops were. But folks should also remember that when Molotov flew to Nazi Germany, Hitler offered Molotov "pieces of the British Empire" if Britain was to fall to Nazi Germany. So, Molotov deflected and instead asked about what Hitlers troops are doing in countries in close proximity to Russia. It seems like(and maybe a WW2 historian could correct me if I'm wrong) the Russians were offered a real chance at British land, and for whatever reason, they(as in Stalin) turned it down. Its obvious to me that Hitler is by far and wide, the worst of the 4(in terms of Morals). I'm not quite sure about Stalin yet, what he and the Russians did to defeat the Nazis is tough to scratch out.

Also, when FDR passed away on that fateful April morning, Stalin had the major Russian newspapers run with FDR'rs death on the front pages. When Roosevelt died, the Russian Gov, the British Gov, even the Japanese Gov sent their condolences. Yet, the Nazi's delighted in FDR"s death, viewing it as a divine sign they would win the war, of course they were wrong.
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Old 06-06-2014, 08:40 PM   #2
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Re: How do you view the 4 Major leaders of WW2?

Despise? Hitler and Stalin. I'm not fond of Churchill, but "despise" is too strong, and he's not in the same category as the other two butchers.
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Old 06-07-2014, 07:18 PM   #3
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Re: How do you view the 4 Major leaders of WW2?

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Originally Posted by thekid345 View Post
Which WW2 leader(s) do you despise? if any that is, and why?
Seriously?????
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Old 06-09-2014, 01:12 PM   #4
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Re: How do you view the 4 Major leaders of WW2?

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Originally Posted by Husker View Post
Seriously?????
Wrt Stalin, however, popular opinion within the Russian Federation is mixed.

And let us not forget some folks do still support the actions/views of Germany and Hitler during the war, albeit a minority of folks. I cant imagine why you would ask the above.
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Old 06-10-2014, 10:47 AM   #5
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Re: How do you view the 4 Major leaders of WW2?

Both here and in your *Warlords* thread, you're leaving out this guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hideki_Tojo

Pretty big omission, IMO.
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Old 06-10-2014, 08:40 PM   #6
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Re: How do you view the 4 Major leaders of WW2?

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Originally Posted by Kurn, son of Mogh View Post
Both here and in your *Warlords* thread, you're leaving out this guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hideki_Tojo

Pretty big omission, IMO.
And also this man, leader of China from 1928 to 1948 during the sino-Japanese war (which started in 1937) through all of WWII: Chiang Kai-shek.
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Old 06-11-2014, 03:33 PM   #7
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Re: How do you view the 4 Major leaders of WW2?

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Originally Posted by Kurn, son of Mogh View Post
Both here and in your *Warlords* thread, you're leaving out this guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hideki_Tojo

Pretty big omission, IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeno View Post
And also this man, leader of China from 1928 to 1948 during the sino-Japanese war (which started in 1937) through all of WWII: Chiang Kai-shek.
I agree with the above. And its interesting to note that it was FDR himself who said that China, U.S.A, USSR, and the UK should go on to become the worlds police or "four policemen".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Policemen
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Old 06-22-2014, 10:35 AM   #8
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Re: How do you view the 4 Major leaders of WW2?

Took some thinking on this one but in the end, the real bad guy of WW2 was Hitler, as opposed to Hitler and Stalin.

I noted one voter did(seemingly**) approve of Hitlers actions during the war, along with despising FDR, I would like to ask this voter to come forward and explain why you think FDR was the bad guy and Hitler the good guy. Now, I understand this could be a troll, but to say Hitler was not a bad guy, is really trolling pretty hardcore, but then again, this is how some folks think, we have folks who simply cant stand others because of their religion or how they look.

As we know, during WW2, the USSR gov kept its own citizens from knowing how many Russians died during the war by, for example, fudging the numbers. We must understand, that during WW2, the circumstances in Russia were far different then what folks in the USA were facing. For example, Russia was of course invaded by one of histories strongest armies, while the USA was not.

Although, one thing folks often forget is that German Uboats attacked American Merchant ships around the coast of North Carolina back in 42', causing substantial damage. So in turn, U.S. military and government authorities didn’t want people to worry, so news reports of enemy U-boats near the coast were classified, or held back from the public for national security reasons. For many years, most people had no idea how bad things really were. But families living on the Outer Banks knew—they were practically in the war.

http://www.learnnc.org/lp/editions/nchist-worldwar/5908

One could only imagine how the USA State dept would react if the country faced a full scale invasion during WW2.

Last edited by thekid345; 06-22-2014 at 10:45 AM. Reason: seemingly**
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Old 06-22-2014, 03:29 PM   #9
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Re: How do you view the 4 Major leaders of WW2?

Well the media here in the U.S. is controlled by government even in peace time.
2014 World Rankings Freedom of Press (Reporters Without Borders):
USA: 46 out of 180

26% of nations have better freedom of the press than the United States.

The lack of censorship we do have in the United States exists because of the two party system, basically they each use their connections in the media to slam the other party. In a war setting however, those differences would be minimized and it seems highly likely to me that -- like in World War 2 -- there would be heavy censorship and little or no press freedom.
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:29 AM   #10
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Re: How do you view the 4 Major leaders of WW2?

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Originally Posted by Shuffle View Post
Well the media here in the U.S. is controlled by government even in peace time.
2014 World Rankings Freedom of Press (Reporters Without Borders):
USA: 46 out of 180

26% of nations have better freedom of the press than the United States.

The lack of censorship we do have in the United States exists because of the two party system, basically they each use their connections in the media to slam the other party. In a war setting however, those differences would be minimized and it seems highly likely to me that -- like in World War 2 -- there would be heavy censorship and little or no press freedom.
Do you have a link to the report?
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Old 06-23-2014, 05:08 PM   #11
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Re: How do you view the 4 Major leaders of WW2?

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Originally Posted by Kurn, son of Mogh View Post
Do you have a link to the report?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-s...b_4770182.html

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014...y-report-says/
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Old 06-24-2014, 08:26 AM   #12
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Re: How do you view the 4 Major leaders of WW2?

Thanks.
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