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Old 11-24-2014, 01:43 AM   #1
Mason Malmuth
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Hitler and WWI and WWII

Hi Everyone:

I recently watched a series of shows about the World Wars on one of the history channels and one of the things they mentioned is that there were some things that Hitler learned from WWI and these things impacted his strategy in WWII, especially at the beginning of WWII. One example the shows gave was that Hitler realized that the best chance Germany had of winning WWI was when Russia was not in the war, so he got a non-aggression pact with The Soviet Union at the start of WWII.

So I'm wondering what other things/events from WWI influenced what Hitler did in WWII.

Best wishes,
Mason
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Old 11-24-2014, 08:21 AM   #2
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Re: Hitler and WWI and WWII

I think his blitz method was influenced by the literal, and figurative, slog that was warfare in WWI. Of course the blitz was made possible by the advances in war machines.

I am just glad he went back on the non-agression pact with Russia as it would have made WWII harder and longer if Russia had stayed on the sidelines.
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Old 11-24-2014, 03:40 PM   #3
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Re: Hitler and WWI and WWII

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I think his blitz method was influenced by the literal, and figurative, slog that was warfare in WWI.
I actually think the slog impacted negatively on his thinking in some ways. Territory was so hard won in WW1 that giving it up easily was unthinkable and I think this influenced Hilter's decision making when the war turned in the allies favour and he repeatedly refused to give the order to retreat to better defensive positions.
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Old 11-24-2014, 04:12 PM   #4
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Re: Hitler and WWI and WWII

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I actually think the slog impacted negatively on his thinking in some ways. Territory was so hard won in WW1 that giving it up easily was unthinkable and I think this influenced Hilter's decision making when the war turned in the allies favour and he repeatedly refused to give the order to retreat to better defensive positions.
I think his refusal had more to do with the fact by that point he was even more bat **** crazy.
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Old 11-24-2014, 05:52 PM   #5
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Re: Hitler and WWI and WWII

Being bliiiiiiiiiiiiiind..?
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Old 11-25-2014, 03:00 AM   #6
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Re: Hitler and WWI and WWII

Hi Everyone:

Here's another thing that the shows claimed Hitler learned from WWI. Apparently, at the end of WWI, Hitler was in a gas attack and was close to dying, and when WWI ended, he was actually in a German hospital and was blinded from the gas attack for some period of time. Thus, Hitler understood from personal experience how bad gas was and that's why he wanted to use gas in the death camps so the people killed would suffer as much as possible.

Best wishes,
Mason
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Old 11-25-2014, 03:39 AM   #7
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Re: Hitler and WWI and WWII

the storys talked about hitler never cease to amazing me

I have ALL my respect for the Jew community, buth some things are laughable..

really

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Old 11-25-2014, 05:32 AM   #8
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Re: Hitler and WWI and WWII

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Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
Hi Everyone:

Here's another thing that the shows claimed Hitler learned from WWI. Apparently, at the end of WWI, Hitler was in a gas attack and was close to dying, and when WWI ended, he was actually in a German hospital and was blinded from the gas attack for some period of time. Thus, Hitler understood from personal experience how bad gas was and that's why he wanted to use gas in the death camps so the people killed would suffer as much as possible.

Best wishes,
Mason
I'm not sure this is correct. Hitler did suffer a gas attack but the idea of using gas in the death camps was about finding an efficient way of killing large numbers of people and reducing the problems mass shootings caused rather than finding the method that caused the most suffering (horrible though it was)
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Old 11-25-2014, 06:00 AM   #9
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Re: Hitler and WWI and WWII

yes indeed, that a lot of terribles other toughts he had

Only God forgive him

And some people has to learn to forgive, IMO
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Old 11-25-2014, 04:16 PM   #10
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Re: Hitler and WWI and WWII

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Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
Hi Everyone:

Here's another thing that the shows claimed Hitler learned from WWI. Apparently, at the end of WWI, Hitler was in a gas attack and was close to dying, and when WWI ended, he was actually in a German hospital and was blinded from the gas attack for some period of time. Thus, Hitler understood from personal experience how bad gas was and that's why he wanted to use gas in the death camps so the people killed would suffer as much as possible.

Best wishes,
Mason
Not sure this is entirely accurate, especially given that Zyklon B and Mustard Gas are two very different compounds (cyanide gas is actually meant to kill fairly quickly, and doesn't produce the same burns as chlorine gas). Certainly Hitler seemed to consider the use of gas dishonorable, which is why it wasn't widely used by the Wehrmacht, but would have considered it fine for those he considered sub-human, like the Jews and Roma.
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Old 11-25-2014, 05:25 PM   #11
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Re: Hitler and WWI and WWII

I had always assumed that Hitler decided to attack Russia because his armies had been doing so well in Europe. And he believed that Barbarossa would last only a matter of months, which would have more than paid for itself had he got as far as Moscow and controlled the industrial areas in Ukraine. Basically it was greed.

But without doubt that was the biggest single pivot point of WWII.
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Old 11-26-2014, 03:06 AM   #12
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Re: Hitler and WWI and WWII

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I had always assumed that Hitler decided to attack Russia because his armies had been doing so well in Europe. And he believed that Barbarossa would last only a matter of months, which would have more than paid for itself had he got as far as Moscow and controlled the industrial areas in Ukraine. Basically it was greed.

But without doubt that was the biggest single pivot point of WWII.
Hi MacaroonUK:

The shows I watched brought this point out. Even though Hitler wanted the Soviets out at the beginning of the war, the shows argued that his land army was so successful that Hitler thought he could easily defeat any army, thus he changed his mind and attacked Russia.

Best wishes,
Mason
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Old 11-26-2014, 11:58 AM   #13
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Re: Hitler and WWI and WWII

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Originally Posted by MacaroonUK View Post
I had always assumed that Hitler decided to attack Russia because his armies had been doing so well in Europe. And he believed that Barbarossa would last only a matter of months, which would have more than paid for itself had he got as far as Moscow and controlled the industrial areas in Ukraine. Basically it was greed.

But without doubt that was the biggest single pivot point of WWII.
It's also the case that he thought a showdown with Stalin was inevitable, and wanted to hit him before the Soviets were at full strength. He woefully miscalculated the degree of resistance the Russians were able to put up.
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Old 11-26-2014, 12:48 PM   #14
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Re: Hitler and WWI and WWII

From my limited understand. Gas chambers was in response to the demoralising effect the mass shooting/graves was having on the German men (think I heard they also had gas vans, basically portable gas chambers)

Hitler did say about the Russians being "a rotten structure that would collapse when the door is kick in" or something along them lines.

I think the mini wars Russia suck at against inferior opposite helped shape his opinion.
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Old 11-26-2014, 02:18 PM   #15
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Re: Hitler and WWI and WWII

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Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
Hi Everyone:

Here's another thing that the shows claimed Hitler learned from WWI. Apparently, at the end of WWI, Hitler was in a gas attack and was close to dying, and when WWI ended, he was actually in a German hospital and was blinded from the gas attack for some period of time. Thus, Hitler understood from personal experience how bad gas was and that's why he wanted to use gas in the death camps so the people killed would suffer as much as possible.

Best wishes,
Mason
They are throwing this out as factual information on American television? Oh my. Allied propaganda still running rampant after all these years. There is absolutely no evidence linking Hitler to the Holocaust, let alone with information this specific.

About his attack on Russia, it was inevitable. A matter of attack is the best defense. This might be a bit too controversial for an American board, but it's comparable to the attack on Pearl Harbor, forced by American meddling into Chinese-Japanese affairs, cutting Japan's supply of raw materials to such a level that they would have been unable to continue their war efforts on a very short notice. It therefor became a necessity to capture the oil from the Dutch East Indies, to which Pearl Harbor was a great danger.

Russia was building up its war effort and planning to invade Europe for a long time, starting in 1940, which Hitler was well aware of. Hell, the entire premise of communism is based on world domination. Hitler's attack took them by surprise and they weren't prepared for defensive actions, giving the German army a distinct advantage in the early stages. Had the German attack not come, Russia would have stomped all over Europe, marching straight through Berlin and enslaving Europe, employing the same barbaric regime as Eastern Europe was subjected to after the Russian 'liberation' from Nazi-Germany. So that's one thing we have to thank the Germans for.
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Old 11-27-2014, 02:46 AM   #16
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Re: Hitler and WWI and WWII

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They are throwing this out as factual information on American television? Oh my. Allied propaganda still running rampant after all these years. There is absolutely no evidence linking Hitler to the Holocaust, let alone with information this specific.
Wow. I think the location in your profile might be literal.

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Originally Posted by Chrizza View Post

About his attack on Russia, it was inevitable. A matter of attack is the best defense. This might be a bit too controversial for an American board, but it's comparable to the attack on Pearl Harbor, forced by American meddling into Chinese-Japanese affairs, cutting Japan's supply of raw materials to such a level that they would have been unable to continue their war efforts on a very short notice. It therefor became a necessity to capture the oil from the Dutch East Indies, to which Pearl Harbor was a great danger.
Its true the US was putting a lot of pressure on Japan prior to Pearl Harbor, cutting off raw materials and supporting the Chinese. But this was in resistance to Japan's attempt to conquer Asia. They weren't forced into an attack, they had the option to consolidate the territory they had and give up on some of their broader ambitions.

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Russia was building up its war effort and planning to invade Europe for a long time, starting in 1940, which Hitler was well aware of. Hell, the entire premise of communism is based on world domination. Hitler's attack took them by surprise and they weren't prepared for defensive actions, giving the German army a distinct advantage in the early stages. Had the German attack not come, Russia would have stomped all over Europe, marching straight through Berlin and enslaving Europe, employing the same barbaric regime as Eastern Europe was subjected to after the Russian 'liberation' from Nazi-Germany. So that's one thing we have to thank the Germans for.
A lot of people either forget or never realized that the Soviets invaded Poland at the same time as Germany and attacked Finland too.
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Old 11-27-2014, 05:27 AM   #17
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Re: Hitler and WWI and WWII

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Its true the US was putting a lot of pressure on Japan prior to Pearl Harbor, cutting off raw materials and supporting the Chinese. But this was in resistance to Japan's attempt to conquer Asia. They weren't forced into an attack, they had the option to consolidate the territory they had and give up on some of their broader ambitions.
They could have, yes, but how realistic was that? If the roles were reversed, would the US simply have said: ''Too good, mighty Japan, we will back down''? Fact is that Roosevelt couldn't wait to get involved in WW2 and knew very well that Japan wouldn't back down. He was practically fighting a passive war already before Pearl Harbor, with massive amounts of material and monetary support going to the Brits and Russians (the latter further provoking Japan, who had a long standing rivalry with them). The only problem was that he promised the public, who were massively against war, he wouldn't get them into one during his election campaign. Pearl Harbor gave him the perfect opportunity, selling it as a barbaric attack on the innocent United States.
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Old 11-27-2014, 12:23 PM   #18
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Re: Hitler and WWI and WWII

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Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
Hi Everyone:

I recently watched a series of shows about the World Wars on one of the history channels and one of the things they mentioned is that there were some things that Hitler learned from WWI and these things impacted his strategy in WWII, especially at the beginning of WWII. One example the shows gave was that Hitler realized that the best chance Germany had of winning WWI was when Russia was not in the war, so he got a non-aggression pact with The Soviet Union at the start of WWII.

So I'm wondering what other things/events from WWI influenced what Hitler did in WWII.

Best wishes,
Mason
If this is the docudrame you are speaking of,

http://www.history.com/shows/the-world-wars

I found one of the more interesting aspects of WW1 to be the alleged story of how a British solider was one on one with Hitler,

http://www.history.com/shows/the-wor...d-hitlers-life

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Tandey

If true, the above is remarkable. Henry Tandey was said to have Hitler in his sights, but decided in an act of kindness, to let Hitler go. Of course Tandey had no clue who Hitler would go on to become, but one can only imagine how history would have changed had Tandey killed Hitler during WW1.

Last edited by thekid345; 11-27-2014 at 12:50 PM.
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Old 11-27-2014, 01:38 PM   #19
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Re: Hitler and WWI and WWII

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Originally Posted by thekid345 View Post
If this is the docudrame you are speaking of,

http://www.history.com/shows/the-world-wars

I found one of the more interesting aspects of WW1 to be the alleged story of how a British solider was one on one with Hitler,

http://www.history.com/shows/the-wor...d-hitlers-life

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Tandey

If true, the above is remarkable. Henry Tandey was said to have Hitler in his sights, but decided in an act of kindness, to let Hitler go. Of course Tandey had no clue who Hitler would go on to become, but one can only imagine how history would have changed had Tandey killed Hitler during WW1.
The story is undoubtedly fantasy.

For one, there is dispute about the date, it's variously given as Oct 1914, Sept 1918 or Oct 1918, although the various stories do agree Tandey spared the life of a wounded German.

Hitler was a regimental runner based behind the lines but was wounded twice; once in 1916 by shrapnel and in Oct 1918 by mustard gas.

The wound in 1916 was suffered when a shell exploded in the regimental runners dugout behind the front line, so no chance he saw a British soldier on that occasion.

The wound of Oct 1918 rendered Hitler temporarily blind, hardly able to see a British soldier, let alone recognise him from a painting years later.
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Old 11-27-2014, 03:23 PM   #20
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Re: Hitler and WWI and WWII

Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I think a poster in this thread is just trolling and although I have a hard time not feeding the trolls, I'll refrain this time.
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Old 11-27-2014, 04:46 PM   #21
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Re: Hitler and WWI and WWII

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The story is undoubtedly fantasy.

Dont you feel that saying the story is undoubtedly a Fantasy is going to far? It may have happened,

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For one, there is dispute about the date, it's variously given as Oct 1914, Sept 1918 or Oct 1918, although the various stories do agree Tandey spared the life of a wounded German.

Hitler was a regimental runner based behind the lines but was wounded twice; once in 1916 by shrapnel and in Oct 1918 by mustard gas.

The wound in 1916 was suffered when a shell exploded in the regimental runners dugout behind the front line, so no chance he saw a British soldier on that occasion.

The wound of Oct 1918 rendered Hitler temporarily blind, hardly able to see a British soldier, let alone recognise him from a painting years later.
There is this,

Though sources do not exist to prove the exact whereabouts of Adolf Hitler on that day in 1918, an intriguing link emerged to suggest that he was in fact the soldier Tandey spared. A photograph that appeared in London newspapers of Tandey carrying a wounded soldier at Ypres in 1914 was later portrayed on canvas in a painting by the Italian artist Fortunino Matania glorifying the Allied war effort. As the story goes, when British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain traveled to Germany in 1938 to engage Hitler in a last-ditch effort to avoid another war in Europe, he was taken by the führer to his new country retreat in Bavaria. There, Hitler showed Chamberlain his copy of the Matania painting, commenting, "That’s the man who nearly shot me."

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-h...d-adolf-hitler

Maybe the folks over at history.com should be contacted for a fact check?
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Old 11-27-2014, 05:18 PM   #22
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Re: Hitler and WWI and WWII

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Dont you feel that saying the story is undoubtedly a Fantasy is going to far? It may have happened,



There is this,

Though sources do not exist to prove the exact whereabouts of Adolf Hitler on that day in 1918, an intriguing link emerged to suggest that he was in fact the soldier Tandey spared. A photograph that appeared in London newspapers of Tandey carrying a wounded soldier at Ypres in 1914 was later portrayed on canvas in a painting by the Italian artist Fortunino Matania glorifying the Allied war effort. As the story goes, when British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain traveled to Germany in 1938 to engage Hitler in a last-ditch effort to avoid another war in Europe, he was taken by the führer to his new country retreat in Bavaria. There, Hitler showed Chamberlain his copy of the Matania painting, commenting, "That’s the man who nearly shot me."

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-h...d-adolf-hitler

Maybe the folks over at history.com should be contacted for a fact check?

There's no evidence that this ever happened with no mention of it in Chamberlain's papers.

The story also has Neville Chamberlain telephoning Tandey on his return to England to tell him of Hitler's comments, despite Tandey not having a telephone.
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Old 11-28-2014, 05:54 AM   #23
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Re: Hitler and WWI and WWII

Quote:
Originally Posted by thekid345 View Post
If this is the docudrame you are speaking of,

http://www.history.com/shows/the-world-wars

I found one of the more interesting aspects of WW1 to be the alleged story of how a British solider was one on one with Hitler,

http://www.history.com/shows/the-wor...d-hitlers-life

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Tandey

If true, the above is remarkable. Henry Tandey was said to have Hitler in his sights, but decided in an act of kindness, to let Hitler go. Of course Tandey had no clue who Hitler would go on to become, but one can only imagine how history would have changed had Tandey killed Hitler during WW1.
Hi kid:

Yes, that's the docudrama that I saw, and "the alleged story of how a British solider was one on one with Hitler" while interesting, is something whose complete complete accuracy I would question.

Best wishes,
Mason
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Old 11-28-2014, 02:05 PM   #24
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Re: Hitler and WWI and WWII

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From my limited understand. Gas chambers was in response to the demoralising effect the mass shooting/graves was having on the German men (think I heard they also had gas vans, basically portable gas chambers)
the vans that were supposedly used to suffocate people in the beginnning of the holocaust werent really gas vans. it is claimed they used the exhaust fumes to suffocate the poor souls locked in the back of the truck.
i have heard different oppinion on how much if at all these vans were used.
its often complicated to discern what actually happend and what was propagand or a myth since there has been so much outrages brutality and suffering in that period of time but also a ton of propaganda.
For example it is still commonly believed churchill walked around drunk outside during a german bombing raid on london, while that was proven to be nazi propaganda.

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Hitler did say about the Russians being "a rotten structure that would collapse when the door is kick in" or something along them lines.

I think the mini wars Russia suck at against inferior opposite helped shape his opinion.
thats pretty much exactly what he said and it is what just happend a few decades ago in the 1.wolrd war.
see the german plan for the first world war (the schlieffen plan) was to throw everything they had at france and crush them quickly to be able to turn around and do the same thing to russia.
there was only a small holding force stationed at the russianboarder commanded by von hindenburg and ludendorf (actually they took over the command after the german forces wre defated in the battle of gumbingen).
this small army was just supposed to hold its position untill it could get reinforced by the troops from the western front after frances defeat.
now it didnt exactly work out like that.
The westernfront turned into this huge meatgrinder and easternfront could not be reinforced like originally planned.
to everybodys suprise the small german holding force was still able to not only hold their positions but to actually advance one of the main reasons for that was the outbreak of the russian revolution.
in the second world war the wehrmacht was extremely successfull in the beginning of the war the invasion of poland, france etc alll just took days to weeks while the russian army violently got its ass handed to them in finnland.
so it wasnt to far fetched to think the sowjetunion might collapse when you just "kick in the door" after all that just happend not too long ago and the red army didnt exactly look too threatening at that time.
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