When discussing history with respect to the last 2,000 years, the values of the West are the “underdog” values. Equality amongst the sexes, freedom of religion, freedom of expression and generally freedom at all, are not the norm.


I had the USA in mind when I thought of "values of the West" but I thought this might undermine the whole thesis.

This seems more like a political topic then a historical.

The definition of freedom for example has evolved a great deal over time. Ancient Greek's and Roman's thought of themselves as free but owed slaves, oppressed certain religions, suppressed certain types of expression etc.

You use the term "underdog values" it might be interesting to explore what parts of history set the foundation for your "underdog values" to evolve in the United States but you don't have to dig to far back in even the US history to see that even in the US "underdog values" not the norm. It wasn't that long ago:

Women couldn't vote
People owned slaves
Certain speech has been suppressed
Native American's were treated very differently even forced to relocate.
ect.

The primary reason I felt uncomfortable using the term "USA" is because it entails acknowledging a certain history of which we rightfully must acknowledge, and it of course brings the question up of, "well does the USA even have 'underdog values'?" I used the term "West' to acknowledge our specific ideology at this point and time in history, given all that we've learned about the aforementioned things, the advancements of which I don't think are necessarily the "USA's," but are instead attributed to a "Western" brand thoughts on individual liberties.

I would certainly retract everything I just said there if it turned out that our historically ideals weren't new, or if it was the case that we are heinous examples of the ideal compared to another historical group.

I don't think this is suitable for the political forum though. I am looking for a comparison of historical ideologies, not necessary current ones (primarily though, because I am under the assumption that the western ideals about treatment of women, free speech, ethnic groups, etc. is the only legitimately defensible game in town).

Hugely not the norm. Not sure what you mean by "underdog." Even the very idea of equality of the sexes is only about 230 years old (thinking back to Judith Sargent Murray in the US, Emilie du Chatelet and Olympe de Gouges in France, and Mary Wollstonecraft in England), and it hasn't really been popular until the last 80 or so years at best. And given the backlash against every generation of women's rights advocates, one wonders whether it's still a totally accepted notion.

I wouldn't necessarily say "freedoms" are not the norm. I would say that the definition of freedom as currently thought of is a relatively new concept.

Equality between the sexes is not the norm now. Both men and women can vote but only men can be drafted. Whoops.