Nixon opened relations with China, he's not great, but it's worth mentioning.

I really liked LBJ, but I think JFK is really, really over hyped for so many reasons.

That story is widely regarded as apocryphal, or at least largely exaggerated... but it is true that Washington's peaceful transition out of power did set a positive precedent in the early republic.

First half of our history:

Most over rated: Jefferson

Most under rated: Grant



Second half of our history:

Most over rated: Wilson

Most under rated: McKinley



The Missed potential category:

Most likely to be great had he lived longer: Garfield

Most likely to be a failure had he lived longer: Kennedy


Truly great presidents:
Washington
Lincoln
TR
Reagan

not great but very good:
Jackson

This

whoever the next great one is, that's the greatest of all time imo

Yeah I agree with you. Kennedy did a lot in 2 years and he probably would of got re-elected. With Kennedy, it's a story of what could of been.

Agggh-Haahhh!

Greatest US President discussion is limited: Washington - to Reagan. Time is too close to make judgments on more recent Presidents. And more important it keeps the History forum a History forum and not a politics and current or recent events forum. No leeway given on this, the slippery slope is too damaging and dangerous

-Zeno

I found one more modern president itt.

My current "mysterious" leaning atm is towards Washington as #1.

But I haven't studied individual administrations enough. A few years back I would of went with FDR or Lincoln. But today its Washington. Though I could change my mind or tie things with more details.

It's hard to say if its tougher being president with too little red tape or too much. Also Washington had no precedents set by earlier administrations to make things easier or harder.

You're right on point. FDR received more credit than he should have during his campaign and much of today's US policies both good and bad are a direct result of his presidency. Lincoln ranks high, but Washington set the precedent and helped form this country, mostly through military influence, and i believe was the only non-partisan president in US history

If you consider lifetime contribution rather than just accomplishments while in office, Washington certainly moves up a few notches.

Depending on what you mean by "partisan," this is really questionable. If you mean he didn't take a solid position between the Federalists and the Republicans (Jeffersonians), this is true to a certain extent, though he was always more sympathetic to Hamilton's faction than to Jefferson's (his "middle ground" position can be partly explained by the fact that he was both Federalist by philosophy but Republican by virtue of his being Virginian). If you stretch it a little further to the Federalists vs. Anti-Federalists, Washington was a staunch partisan in favor of the Federalists and the Constitution.

Teddy Roosevelt had the greatest mustache. This thread should be over

I don't think LBJ belongs here at all.

His three main accomplishments:

Escalation of Vietnam war: This was a mistake from the get-go, and was hideously mismanaged. Having committed to fight the war, he should have fought to win, and didn't.

Great Society (expansion of welfare). This is mixed, but IMO mostly negative, and actually hurt the people it was intended to help.

Civil Rights legislation: This was what keeps LBJ from being a total failure and is the one thing (and it is a big thing) that maybe, just maybe, made his presidency worthwhile. He showed a lot of political courage, and put us on the road to ending the racism of slavery and Jim Crow.

Washington probably could ave easily set himself up as a dictator, and didn't. He deserves a lot of credit for this. He also kept the US alive during a time when it could easily have disintegrated.

Teddy freakin Roosevelt.

The guy believed in industrial progress but he could see both sides of the story. He busted conglomerate trusts that were ruining competition, but also kept unions at bay. He single handedly ended the Steel Strike and staved off a recession. He expanded America's power to Southeast Asia and South America. He fought corruption and groomed Taft to become a great president (though they had their disagreements). Finally, he left the scene when it was time for him to but he came back later as the candidate under the Bull Moose party because he could see even back then that the Repubs and the Dems are nothing but opportunists.

But doesn't this speak to the fact that the US wasn't ready to fight WW2?

I'm not saying we had nothing, but to say we were "ready" to fight when we entered the war seems like a stretch.

We had like 3,000 nurses total at the start lol.

Wasn't our entire armed forces something like the 17th largest in the world when Pear Harbor happened?

Well, again, I feel like we're talking about two different things (naval forces were a much bigger concern than infantry or armor in 1939-1941, since the US is effectively an "island," with no threatening opponents adjacent by land). The US fleet was quite large, because confrontation with Japan seemed inevitable. The US getting involved in another European war wasn't necessarily as foreseen. But it's equally true that in the Civil War, the Spanish-American War, and World War I (and then again in World War II), the US mobilized effectively one of the largest armies on the planet very quickly.

Washington could have been King. He declined the role and lead the nation into a new era of politics. I vote him number 1.

Lincoln for all the faults of Hab.Corpus being suspended was brilliant in so many ways. I shutter to think were we would be today had he not been killed. The South would not have suffered the carpetbaggers, nor the black man the indentured servitude. Lincoln had an ability to Unite the Nation after the war in a way that neither Johnson nor Grant could ever do.

FDR deserves some of the credit thrown his way. I agree he was greatly helped by the Second World War, but Wars in and of themselves do not solve economic and social crisis as faced by our nation and the world in the 1930-40s. He served us for 16 tumultuous years. He had the rhetorical skills to make the nation feel secure and the moral urgency to lead the nation. While he was fortunate to mostly have a compliant Congress which didn't question him sufficiently especially in later years, he properly proceeded with the War, with the economy and in much of his social agenda. He did all of that while dealing with the pain and agony associated with Polio. He gets serious cred from most historians and deserves it even if we don't agree with all the policies.

Truman had to make the toughest decision of any President, and did so unflinchingly. His training for the job was nearly non-existent yet when he had to, he stepped up both in making the decision to bomb Japan with the A bomb and in supporting the Marshall plan. I am not sure but I think he selected Justice Jackson to lead the Nurenburg Trials and that too was an excellent appointment. Korea was a terrible error and it goes against him being the greatest but he is certainly in the next level.

While JFK did not serve long enough for consideration as the greatest, he had what I think was the Second hardest decision, and again he chose correctly. He DID NOT Fire nuclear weapons at Cuba or Russia but put together a brilliant strategy to avert nuclear war. Kruschev gets an assist there too from what I am hearing. He stood up to the hard liners but he paid the price. I guess JFK did too...

Nixon is so personally flawed that it is hard to think of him as a great president. That is sad. No one president has ever been as good as he was on Foreign Policy. I doubt we will ever see one as good again.

Gotta give kudos to L.Johnson for passage of the Civil Rights act, but he was stuck with Kennedy's Vietnam an never could get that right.

President Regan... He is looking better with each passing year. I do not think the wall in Germany would have come down without his moral leadership and his 100 percent American can do position. RR unlike Bush II had a certain air of confidence in our country that was not gringoistic and not snobby. He could appreciate the culture of foreigners yet be just as secure as John Wayne in his beliefs. I am looking forward to 30 or so years from now when some of his papers that are still classified come out. I think we will see a much more nuanced man than we gave him credit for. BTW it is not coincidence that he rose along with Solidarity in Poland, and the Rebirth of the Catholic Church under John Paul II. I don't think either of those two things happen without RR at the helm in the USA. I am positive they wouldn't have happened had he lost that election. I am looking forward to seeing the correspondence between Regan and JPII.

Finally my favorite, TR. Teddy Roosevelt. He single handedly brought America into the 20th Century nearly screaming and kicking. Old money, Harvard educated, Republican, Teddy was a trust busting- Foreign policy trailblazing one man show. Like Ronald Regan he too saw the potential of our whole nation. Educated in NY and Massachusetts Teddy had a love of the West and an understanding of the people who went west. He saw and experienced the Pioneer in each American. He also had the ability to accomplish whatever he set his mind to. We overlook him as he did not lead us in War, nor in economic hard times, however we never look to see that his leadership and personality kept us from war and economic hardship. He deserves consideration among the very best.

Maybe however we should over look our need to quantify, qualify, and rate every President. As a nation, we have had but a couple/three klunkers. We mostly choose our leaders well, and while we may not always get the best, we get close enough most of the time. Additionally, even those whom we may not look at all that kindly have a way of stepping up when the need arises.

It really irks me when some blow-hard like Rush Limbaugh roots for our President to fail. He is really rooting for us all to fail. I may not always agree or even like the POTUS but I prefer to take a lesson from John Wayne (the actor)
In speaking about President John F. Kennedy who Wayne ardently opposed in the tight 1960 presidential election. The Duke said:

"I didn't vote for him but he's my president, and I hope he does a good job."

They have all been my presidents, and I think they have each done the best job they could.

Lincoln/Washington tied for best. FDR good but overrated. Hoover a good man but a bad President. Buchanan arguably the worst.

JFK got US into Vietnam. End of discussion, can't be the best.

Nixon is very interesting. I agree he was as good as it gets for foreign policy. Nuclear treaty with russia, opening China, ended vietnam,. Its funny how the hippies love Kennedy (started Vietnam) and hate Nixon (ended Vietnam). He was a brilliant man and got caught doing a minor thing with Watergate. If it wasn't for watergate he would be a top 5 president.


Reagan to me is one of the worst presidents ever. Reaganomics is killing the US. He started it in California and look what its doing there. His idea that the govt. can barrow $ and never pay it back as long as the economy grows is BS. Trickle down theory: The poor will be better off if the rich have all the money. Even GB Sr. disagreed with Reaganomic. First he ran against these policies in the 1980 primaries. Next he tried to reverse many of these policies as president. Your points about the church are true. The problem is the president has no business propping up the pope and the church. Remember separation of church and state? Taking credit for the collapse of USSR is a stretch. The problems there were internal economic problems. The US having more nuclear weapons had very little to do with it. Oh yes, how about Iran Conta? That scandal broke because the CIA got caught with a crashed plane load of cocaine. Wow trading cocaine for guns. What a great idea! So he made the "War on Drugs" a priority. That was real successful. Makes Watergate look all "sunshine, lollipops and rainbows." Lets not forget Reagan had serious Alzheimer's disease his last 4 years in office. Even his own family now admits it.

Not sure who the best president ever is but Reagan did as much damage to the US, long term economic health as anyone in history.

Actually I don't think Regan propped up the Pope, I think they worked in tandem with Lech Walesa to pressure Poland and the Soviets and helped them to see that further armed conflict with the Resistance was futile. Moreover, the Pope is not just the leader of the Catholic Church, he is also the head of State of the Vatican. Regan had to work with him but I think they set a tone for each other and I know that they had close ties through the embassies. Their tandem was a key to Russian decision making in the area of invading Poland. It is easy to forget it was only 12 or so years before that the Soviets invited themselves into Prague. I think there was a fear that Regan would react far differently than Johnson and Ike had (in Hungry) and that the result would put them far behind the eight ball. They had to let up. I agree that Regan didn't bring down the wall, he just wasn't afraid to exploit the Soviets weakness when it counted. One other thing, There was just something about the way that RR spoke to our nation that gave us faith. We saw the same skills in JFK and in FDR (who had it been a television era may not have faired as well). Ike was a leader of men but really had no effect on our nation, Nixon couldn't stop sweating, LBJ was meant for the backrooms not the living room, Truman had no polish, Hoover's brilliance was off-putting as was his inability to admit disaster when we entered one, Wilson and Taft were just too patrician and also very off putting. TR was everyone's teddy bear and beloved for it.

I fail to mention Ford, the accidental President, who probably did more for our Nation and less for himself than anyone to hold the office in his pardon of Nixon, and Carter who was the 20th century's answer to Buchanan.

I agree it is way too early to tell about Clinton, Bush2 or OBama but

As a foreigner I am always surprised when Ronald Reagan shows up in these lists. Especially claims that the wall would not have come down without him. I lived in Holland during that time and I would give more credit to the Germans themselves and after that Gorbachev. This assumes the collapse of the Soviet Union was inevitable because communism fails.

Star Wars defense tho