By popular demand, one thing that came up a lot in the GOAT military commander thread is ''2+2 military draft'' or ''rankings''. Having myself started a top 100 military commander list years ago, i posted my list and discussion followed.
I will admit that even though i am quite knowledgeable in the field of military history, like anyone else i do not know everything about everybody. Careful study of sources is always needed and is very time consuming.
I make this thread so
a) Myself and others can achieve a higher understanding of military history. This is my primary purpose for this.
b) the actual rankings are secondary to the understanding. The rankings is simply the fun part and means to achieve goal a).
Now that aside, here's the list.
The criteria's and methods used are listed after the list The list is done in 5 man tier(and alphabetical order in the tier) because a 1-to-100 rankings always tend to fall in hair splitting and degenerates in semantic battles. It also tends to be always about the top 20 - missing a good part of the action.
2+2 Military history Power rankings v. 1.0
------------------------------tier1
Alexander the Great 356 BC 323 BC
Aleksandr Suvorov 1729 1800
Hán Xìn 196 BC
Temujin (Genghis Khan) 1167 1227
Timur 1336 1405
------------------------------tier2
Gaius Julius Caesar 100 BC 44 BC
Khalid ibn al-Walid 584 642
Subotai 1176 1248
Scipio Africanus the Older 237 BC 183 BC
Yue Fei 1103 1142
-------------------------------tier3
Hannibal Barca 241 BC 183 BC
Jan Žižka 1370 1424
John Churchill (Duke of Marlborough) 1650 1722
Napoleon Bonaparte 1769 1821
Sir Arthur Wellesley (Duke of Wellington) 1769 1852
-------------------------------tier4
Belisarius 505 565
Gustav II Adolf 1594 1632
Lucius Cornelius Sulla 138 BC 78 BC
Selim I 1470 1520
Samudragupta 335 380
-----------------------------------tier5
George Kastrioti (Skanderbeg) 1405 1468
Nadir Shah 1688 1747
Raimondo Montecuccoli 1608 1680
Stefan cel Mare (Stephen III) 1433 1504
Taizong of Tang (Li ShìMín) 599 649
-----------------------------------tier6
Frederick II of Prussia 1712 1786
Gaius Marius 157 BC 86 BC
Gonzalo de Córdoba (El Gran Capitán) 1453 1515
Philip II of Macedon 382 BC 336 BC
Robert Clive 1725 1774
-----------------------------------tier7
Duke of Parma (Alessandro Farnese) 1545 1592
Gwanggaeto the Great 391 413
Maurice, comte de Saxe 1696 1750
Tiglath-Pileser III 727 BC
Thutmose III 1540 BC
----------------------------------tier8
Aurelian (Lucius Domitius Aurelianus) 214 275
Helmuth Karl Bernhard von Moltke 1800 1891
Louis Nicholas Davout 1770 1823
Maurice of Nassau 1567 1625
Paul Emil von Lettow-Vorbeck 1870 1964
----------------------------------tier9
Constantine I the Great 272 337
Edmund Allenby, 1st Viscount Allenby 1861 1936
Henri de La Tour d'Auvergne de Turenne 1611 1675
Leo III the Isaurian 685 741
Shivaji Bhosle 1627 1680
----------------------------------tier10
Babur 1483 1530
Baibars 1223 1277
Chandragupta Maurya 298 BC
Flavius Aetius
Heraclius 575 641
------------------tier11
Carl Gustav Mannerheim 1867 1951
Mustafa Kemal 1881 1938
Thomas J. (Stonewall) Jackson 1824 1863
Ranjit Singh 1780 1839
Winfield Scott 1786 1866
------------------tier12
Epaminondas 418 BC 362 BC
Edward the Black Prince
Sargon of Akkad
King David
Toyotomi Hideyoshi 1536 1598
------------------------tier13
Lucullus 117BC 56BC
Lautaro (toqui) 1557
Murad IV 1612 1640
Simeon I the Great 864 927
Xiang Yu
------------------------tier14
Albrecht Wallenstein 1583 1634
Charlesmagne
Francesco I Sforza 1401 1466
Janos Hunyadi 1387 1456
Oda Nobunaga 1534 1582
------------------------tier15
Erich von Manstein 1887-1973
Heinz Wilhelm Guderian 1888 1954
Louis II de Bourbon, Prince de Condé 1621 1686
Robert E. Lee 1807 1870
Ulysses Simpson Grant 1822 1885
------------------------tier16
Alp Arslan 1029 1072
Basil II the Bulgar Slayer
Jan III Sobieski 1629 1696
Tran Hung dao 1228 1300
Takeda Shingen 1521 1573
------------------------tier17
Shaka Zulu 1787 1828
Charles Martel 688 741
Louis Joseph de Bourbon, duc de Vendôme 1654 1712
Ahmad Shah Durrani 1723 1773
Jebe 1225
------------------------tier18
Aleksandr Vasilevsky 1895 1977
Georgy Zhukov 1896 1974
George S.Patton
James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose 1612 1650
Rommel 1891 1944
------------------------tier19
'Amr ibn al-'As 583 664
Flavius Stilicho 359 408
Mahmud of Ghazni 971 1030
Shapur I 272
Suleiman I 1494 1566
------------------------tier20
Attila the hun
Gazi Evrenos 1417
Nurhaci 1558 1626
Stanislaw Koniecpolski 1590 1646
Uqba ibn Nafi 622 683
-----------------------
Quote:
Evaluation of Generals
These are the primary facets to consider in evaluating generals’ skills:
1. Individual battlefield inspirational leadership—leadership of the soldier
a. Exemplary work/Personal bravery
b. Motivation
c. Discipline
d. Equipment (and hence innovation in equipment)
e. Logistics (small scale)
2. Tactical mastery—gaining success on the battlefield
a. Maneuver
b. Anticipation
c. Timing
d. Deception of intentions
e. Organization of army
f. Selection of ground for battle
g. Disposition of troops
h. Reconnaissance
i. Evaluating options
j. Audacity at proper times
k. Understanding the enemy
2.5. (Less important) Siege mastery—gaining success in sieges
a. Logistics
b. Engineering
c. Timing
d. Intelligence gathering
e. Motivation of troops
3. Strategic mastery—gaining success in campaign through maneuver or battle
a. Logistics
b. Maneuver on large scale
c. Understanding opportunities
d. Diplomacy with allied armies/generals
e. Forcing battle when necessary
f. Obtaining results from victories in battles
g. Limiting fallout from defeats in battles
h. Choosing when to siege and when to bypass strong points
i. Large-scale organization of army(s)
j. Audacity at proper times
k. Evaluating the enemy’s options
l. Defense—fortifications
4. Grand strategic mastery—gaining victory/the ends desired through the military campaigns (political victory/conquest)
a. Diplomacy with allies and foes
b. Intelligence gathering
c. Understanding when to go to war
d. Playing off rivalries
e. Properly using strategic victories
f. Choosing proper goals for campaigns
g. Peace negotiations
h. Pacification of inhabitants conquered
All of these must be considered in relation to:
1. The relative strength of each side in each of these 4 facets
2. The skill of opponents
3. The economy with which victory in each of these 4 facets was one (in money, destruction of property, and manpower).
4. Where the general was limited by influences out of his control (for instance, many generals had no opportunity to exhibit facet #4, grand strategy).
5. Whether the methods in which victories were gained were innovative or common practice (a small influence, but perhaps should be considered).
6. The time scale of victories
I have posted this in the GOAT military thread, but reposting to ensure everyone sees the same basis for evaluation.
How to propose and argue changes on the list
Argument needs to be done in a mannerly fashion in such fashion as
Quote:
WHAT IS WANTED in arguments and suggestion :
''i suggest Frederick II of Prussia(tier 6) to replace Nadir Shah(tier5). Here are my reasons why Frederick won serious battles at leuthen...'' While Nadir Shah struggled toward the end in his invasion of the Ottoman empire according to Cambridge History of Iran...''
Quote:
What is NOT WANTED :
LOL two mongols in first and Robert LEE in the last 50, pfff bunch of no nammers in front of Patton as well.
You need to examine both sides, not only talk about your ''candidate'', but also discuss who he should replace - i understand this requires careful examination, but this is why i am doing this.
Understand that im not challenging people with this list and this list will change, quite a lot i suspect - im actually looking to work with people in order to achieve a higher historical understanding.