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Old 05-04-2008, 10:52 PM   #26
ImRich
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Re: toptop vs krantz, deep

poor fees
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Old 05-04-2008, 10:56 PM   #27
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Re: toptop vs krantz, deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by fees View Post
how the **** did u fold kings with 100BB...

because i put you on AQ
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Old 05-04-2008, 11:12 PM   #28
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Re: toptop vs krantz, deep

am i the only one that has seen him do all kinds of crazy ****?
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Old 05-04-2008, 11:28 PM   #29
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Re: toptop vs krantz, deep

I am pretty surprised at the majority wanting to fold here. seriously.

What seems more interesting is whether or not to just call or raise.
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Old 05-05-2008, 12:08 AM   #30
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Re: toptop vs krantz, deep

RAISE! we r at the top of our range and he will never expect it
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Old 05-05-2008, 12:22 AM   #31
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Re: toptop vs krantz, deep

To anyone who is thinking about doing anything other than folding, maybe you should check out the forums at

http://www.pocketfives.com/

I'm sure they'll know what krantz has.
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Old 05-05-2008, 01:06 AM   #32
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Re: toptop vs krantz, deep

do people fold 25o here in OP's shoes/
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Old 05-05-2008, 03:12 AM   #33
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Re: toptop vs krantz, deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
do people fold 25o here in OP's shoes/
apparently, yes.

folding here sucks.
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Old 05-05-2008, 03:48 AM   #34
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Re: toptop vs krantz, deep

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how the **** did u fold kings with 100BB...
ahahahaha.

PS: he didn't really have KK!!!
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Old 05-05-2008, 03:51 AM   #35
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Re: toptop vs krantz, deep

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do people fold 25o here in OP's shoes/
52o is much diff...not in terms of relative hand strength but the fact that you make it WAY less likely jay has a set...
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Old 05-05-2008, 04:10 AM   #36
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Re: toptop vs krantz, deep

Folding here would definitely imply that either Jay or JC suck.
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Old 05-05-2008, 04:15 AM   #37
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Re: toptop vs krantz, deep

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Folding here would definitely imply that either Jay or JC suck.
no it doesnt, what are you talking about
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Old 05-05-2008, 04:18 AM   #38
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Re: toptop vs krantz, deep

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Originally Posted by riverboatking View Post
52o is much diff...not in terms of relative hand strength but the fact that you make it WAY less likely jay has a set...
ok, fine, do you fold it? I didn't say it WAS equal to aq, im asking you what you do WITH it.
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Old 05-05-2008, 04:42 AM   #39
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Re: toptop vs krantz, deep

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Originally Posted by g-p View Post
no it doesnt, what are you talking about
ike said this too and hes smart. im also curious as to why.
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Old 05-05-2008, 04:56 AM   #40
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Re: toptop vs krantz, deep

yea i like what TWP said. besides the fact i would rather argue with mr partygirl than ike, the word choice is a little different
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Old 05-05-2008, 05:17 AM   #41
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Re: toptop vs krantz, deep

I have a couple of thoughts about this hand and the responses in this thread. I think in general those of you in the 'fold' camp have probably been seeing a better hand lately when you found yourself in this spot. Conversely, those who dont advocate folding have probably been seeing the plethera of hands that can make this play. Those sentiments are not directed towards the few of you who think beyond selective memory but still provided an action without reason...you know who you are.

There's a lot of thinking going on in this hand imo. And I think it has a lot to do w/ JCmoussa. I'm aware of his image, so I'm inclined to think that the majority of the time JC has a hand >or= AQ, leaning towards >, and a very small % of the time he has air. Which makes OP's call here.....terrible or good, depending on his plan with Krantz behind him. Krantz is a great player, so he's probably going to outplay everyone in this spot most of the time, so as a side note, I think OP could find a better table....unless two of the remaining three players are bad. I think the determining factor for myself in this spot is whether or not Krantz thinks JC will fold AQ or >, or if Krantz is willing to make this play with a hand like As3s and get it in against JC when he has the top % of his range. IMO, if Krantz thinks he can get JC off his hand, he's assuming he's going to get you off your hand as well. I have no idea what your long term image is in Krantz opinion, but from what I gather in this hand I'm going to flat call his raise and play the turn in position. Shoving here is ridiculous, and admittedly this is a very marginal spot, but it appears to be a very marginal game for you, so I dont see how it's avoidable.
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Old 05-05-2008, 06:30 AM   #42
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Re: toptop vs krantz, deep

How exactly would you guys say it's "terrible" (or even exploitable) for Jay to NEVER c/r when a tight player leads into the preflop raiser multi-way and the raiser calls, on a draw heavy board, without being able to beat TPTK? I really don't think this is a very good bluff spot for Jay and I really think he knows that... You should spoil his fun by folding. Sorry Jay!
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Old 05-05-2008, 07:15 AM   #43
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Re: toptop vs krantz, deep

i would make it 5k and call a shove

ship the monies
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Old 05-05-2008, 07:18 AM   #44
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Re: toptop vs krantz, deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by WiltOnTilt View Post
i would make it 5k and call a shove

ship the monies
make it 7k and fold to shove imo.
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Old 05-05-2008, 07:25 AM   #45
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Re: toptop vs krantz, deep

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Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
make it 7k and fold to shove imo.


oh HELLZ ya!
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Old 05-05-2008, 07:43 AM   #46
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Re: toptop vs krantz, deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWorstPlayer View Post
How exactly would you guys say it's "terrible" (or even exploitable) for Jay to NEVER c/r when a tight player leads into the preflop raiser multi-way and the raiser calls, on a draw heavy board, without being able to beat TPTK? I really don't think this is a very good bluff spot for Jay and I really think he knows that... You should spoil his fun by folding. Sorry Jay!
its not terrible to be unbalanced here because this situation is pretty rare. id say jay has at least a flush draw (given jc only has 100bb and his raise is to 40bb+) or a set. at 200bb i feel like the reverse implied of your hand is going to be significant.

could somebody explain why its logical that krantz/jc think op plays badly due to the line taken?
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Old 05-05-2008, 08:10 AM   #47
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Re: toptop vs krantz, deep

i would never try to bluff JC and i probably wouldn't even c/r a flush draw. there you go.

that means i'm going to bluff you one of these days jc!!!!!!
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Old 05-05-2008, 08:43 AM   #48
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Re: toptop vs krantz, deep

How exactly would you guys say it's "terrible" (or even exploitable) for Jay to NEVER c/r when a tight player leads into the preflop raiser multi-way and the raiser calls, on a draw heavy board, without being able to beat TPTK?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah ure actually exploiting the tightness of the player who leads by never (or less than optimal frequency) bluffraising here, and thats how we make money in poker. why would you try to play unexploitable when you know the guy who leads has exploitably tight ranges?
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Old 05-05-2008, 10:56 AM   #49
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Re: toptop vs krantz, deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by WiltOnTilt View Post
i would make it 5k and call a shove

ship the monies
=/ donk
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Old 05-05-2008, 11:42 AM   #50
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Re: toptop vs krantz, deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobboFitos View Post
ok, fine, do you fold it? I didn't say it WAS equal to aq, im asking you what you do WITH it.
hahahahahahahaha.
me fold 2 pair?????
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