I azn girls too. Post the names of the other three in the **** thread imo

/derail

Durrrr and JM will just talk smack to one another.

quoted in case it was missed, i gotta step out but somebody should help him

ill help if you still need it in a few hours

Tyler,

You got IM/Skype of some type?

PM me if you like.

i did not dump chips to jose btw, that was haseeb... tbh it was not even my idea

fellow reputable high stakes regulars, what do you think tyler is entitled to given that I played him under girahs acct? I suggest that Lock should decide, since it was their terms that I believe I broke by playing on his acct... Tyler seems to think he should get all of the money back, but obviously it's in his incentive to do so. Note that there are precedents to this event--never has anyone been given a refund for maing as far as I am aware.

Also, I've asked 3 very reputable high stakes regulars so far, and 1 said he should MAYBE get a little back, 1 said he should get 0 back, and 1 said he doesnt know.

btw tyler, if you make a big deal out of this you will mostly only succeed in making us both looks worse. I think less than 20 % of reputable players think you should get all of it back.

why exactly do they think he should get only some back?

if your argument is that he should be compensated for lost EV, then you should prob pay him back like 2x what you won since he never would have been paid back if you weren't caught.

that said, either pay him back in full or pay him nothing imo. this isn't an EV question. if you feel you cheated him, pay him back. if you don't, keep the money.

i did apologize to him :/ , in fact I offered him some coaching as a condolence... its a different story if he wants to make this public. Also it's also difficult to have remorse when he basically snap threatens to post on 2+2

Direct links to the interviews at SP.
http://www.subjectpoker.com/2011/08/...n-about-girah/

Gotta admit i dont really see why Tyler would be entitled to some kind of refund.
Seems like another endless debate though. Hard (impossible?) to work out the fair, sheer number of any contingent refund.

How many hands? I believe the amount he should get back is between $0 and 5ptbb/100. If you had lost money that session, there is no way you'd ever get it back, so that is my primary motivation for these figures. The case for getting some back is that you cheated and in doing so caused him to lose money, BUT: As poker players we are forced to think about the expected value of the session, which is why assuming a reasonable winrate for you and then going from there seems fair enough to me. Him getting back the full amount is ridiculous. Fwiw, I think this is significantly different than a case of a sick player playing on a fish's account (in which case the information is way more asymmetric). He was playing girahh who was supposed to be the next big thing, not some random scrub. I think in that case a refund near the amount lost is more appropriate.

I've lost about $80,000 that I know about to strong players playing on fish's accounts, and I have not received a dime back.

Wow Daniel, this is really disappointing, I mean really man you want to drag other reputable HS regs in the middle of this because you MA the dude who probably wouldn't play you in a million years if he knew it was you? WTF!

what did u think he should have done? since you know how to handle things in such an appropriate manner? how long ago did this match take place?

zzzzz I would rather have that than the whole poker world! Fwiw even if high stakes community/lock agrees that he should get 0$, I will give him a small refund based on the equity difference.

what bb/100 do you think you would have to pay Tyler for him to play you?

what other players have you made money from through playing on Girahh and other accounts not belonging to you, and for how much?

the pattern seems to be that unless the name is brought up repeatedly, ie. SamChauhan and TylerSmith, you will just deny everything while knowing that the victims may never even know what you did.

I think you are managing to start to come across as even more deceitful than Haseeb, which is quite a feat. the number of people who are giving you a free pass because you are 'jungleman' is dwindling by the hour..

Wow at this statement. This is a self admission that there's something else that will make you look worse than simply the fact you played him on Girah's account. WTF on so many levels.

I also don't get the surprise that he'd want to make a big deal about it or go public to 2p2.


Edit: Okay, seeing the texts, it's pretty clear that there wasn't more to the story than just JM feeling like posting the texts would make them both look worse.

Pretty much sums it all up, right there........... *sighs

This is not regarding the ethics but I think a few important questions are....

Did Tyler have any reads on Jose before the match/ play with him before?
Did Tyler know jungles merge account name before this match?

but it's not, this is unethical. You are essentially telling everyone here that you are trying to bribe tylersmith into not telling everyone that you were MAing. Just because something is immediately -EV for you does not make it the wrong decision in real life.

Do you also admit to stomping "INeverFoldi" and "arnie92662" as well?

And yeah, Daniel.
I couldnt help but noticing how you answered the questions in stated interviews in a way that made it hard for Noah and Vanessa to question you further.
I.e you chose expressions similar to "as far as i recall", "im not sure", "could be wrong", "dont remember", "wouldnt look at it that way", etc etc.
Was this intentional or not?

Well i think Jungleman just showed his true moral fabric.

lol and wow.

No it wasn't an admission that there's something else - when he said "make a big deal out of "this"" I think he was referring to the obvious, that he played against Tyler on the Girahh account and if Tyler made a thread about "that" it would make them both look worse.

---

MisterJoe sir, deep breaths man, you gotta start handling yourself better here.

So basically Girahh's biggest wins have come from either chipdumping to win the lock poker challenge or jungleman MA'ing. so why was Girahh even created then?? seems to me the answer would be for HQ/JM to profit, with Jose getting a cut for lending his name for account registration.

He is entitled to something BETWEEN at LEAST the amount of edge you have on him(roughly, prob on the higher end to be sure) x the number of hands. At the MAX some large amount as a punitive penalty that takes into account that a)there are others who you have probably done this to who will likely not get paid back b)the likelihood of you getting caught c)a penalty that will dissuade others from doing the same.

To anyone who says that they shouldn't get paid back, I assume you would feel the same if it were Phil Ivey was ghosting psi.to.to, Punketty or another reg and beating you?

I think he should get all of the money back since that ensures that no financial harm was done to him. I am not sure that HSNL should be in the business of giving out punitive damages, but I wouldn't object if the site elected to.

Dunno exactly what you should pay back tbh, bear in mind if yr just paying back the EV he lost in the session then you should also be paying back EV to people you lost money to. Also you should prob pay something for the chance you don't get caught and pay him nothing back and prob also something for the fact that you were essentially cheating him out of EV. Analogy, if you steal $10 from someone, you don't just pay back the $10 if you get caught and all is good, you either face some punishment or pay back extra as compensation/apology or w/e.