i was very skeptical early on when i was pushing hard to get him to tell the truth (when he clearly wasn't) and now I'm pretty certain that aside from some details, we're getting a clearer picture of the story. a few things we may never know, including some facts about the results of girah, some MA things, some gray areas with regards to timelines and judgement. nevertheless, i tend to believe most of what i've heard

however, maybe someone can clear up this:

i believe DIH (or jm, if haseeb is gone) should clarify that again, i believe you may be skirting around the truth here. was there a commission based fee agreed upon? it is, in fact, not relevant if he ever paid you if he agreed to pay a %. this is pretty important, as it is the "missing link" implicating DIH to have motive to commit fraud.

(i apologize if this was admitted in the jm interview, i haven't had time to listen to it, i just found it odd that haseeb didn't admit or give numbers)

Maybe some lawyers can chime in, (preferably one from Portugal, lol if possible) . Let's just stick with Jose for now.

What are the legal ramifications for him? I know Kjemmy was pretty upset after the whole teamviewerpro episode.

Would it be possible to contact the authorities in Portugal?
Would Interpol be an option?

I know Jose has made restitution, but that doesn't absolve him of the crime, does it? Would probably just help in the sentence, right?

Rocco is only focused on US law. I think the better option would be to hand all the information over to the authorities in Portugal. Certainly fraud and theft are crimes there also.

dude man up, refusing to talk to him period is pretty ignorant. even if he is lying or you dont believe him, you can probably gather more evidence or whatever. but continuing to just throw accusations without hard evidence is absurd.
it really seems like you are just posting on the forums because you are not man enough to confront him yourself.

and DIH's long post defintley clears up a bunch of stuff.

Obviously

re: the people who are talking about legal action on fraud for vouching for Jose.

This will clearly never work and is a waste of time to discuss. Think of the rating agencies during the mortgage crisis and how they gave AAA ratings to all the terrible debt consolidations. When asked in the hearings about it the only defense they needed is that, those ratings were their opinion at the time and that people are responsible for their own investments. That would be the same for Haseeb/DC vouching for Jose. Whether that is true or not.

Yes it's clear he's made some mistakes in this. People make mistakes especially in cases where there is a ton of pressure being put on them, and where they are receiving terrible advice from a publicist as well as a "close friend" who is actually a manipulative, delusional scumbag.

Also, isn't it true you agreed with jungleman that you'd play at least 5k hands/month in the durrrr challenge? Since all my people are getting called out, isn't it fair you get called out on your bull**** too now? It's National Call out everyone ever associated with someone associated with Haseeb Day

was for any month i wasnt in macau or something like that iirc, dont remember exactly, and i paid him some amount (15k?) for a month where i was only kinda busy and prolly coulda put in time but was a bit lazy. Now pls fkoff n go witch-hunt someone else.

edit: the 15k was more than what he thought was fair btw (based on what we had agreed on and the fact that i was in macau part of the time or something- dont really remember. feel free to ask him pls instead of trying to involve me just because u feel like being an idiot)

lol at 15k but okay cool.

and I will fkoff and go with-hunt someone else if you agree to do the same (ie stick to the information that is true and relevant ITT). (although I actually don't witch-hunt people cuz that's not how I roll, and was only compelled to make a dumb 2p2 account when I see people writing libelous things about people I consider friends)

Asa,

who are/were you on ftp?

pretty sure its twoshae, but not 100%

Okay, so they added me to HSNL to help deal with this thread.

I've deleted a bunch of non-content posts in the last few pages. I'm really tempted to delete all the pscyhological analysis crap and the class action lawsuit stuff, not sure what the other mods think of that.

Again...if you aren't a regular HSNL poster/player, just stop before you hit that 'Submit Reply' button. Go speculate in the NVG threads.

God how could Jose or DIH even think that girahs stats aren't a total lie that this point.

I wasn't implicating you in any way fwiw, just pulling a random example to illustrate how off base some of the stuff posted in this thread is.

You're a good guesser.




Pretty sure you're ban on site TwoShae. At least I get a good lulz for you calling me out. Stay classy.

I think you have to accept something that seems ridiculous in hindsight, DiH was actually acting on the advice of Jose as to what the easiest way to send the money. (obviously in retrospect we know his motivation)

Everyone wants to believe there was a CONspiracy here but all there was is a CON. I know that's disappointing, but is it really that hard to believe that DiH wasn't the one guy that was so smart he figured out Jose was a con artist (when no one else who talked to him did) and convinced Jose to give him a piece of the action? Is it really that difficult to believe that rather than being the one guy Jose couldn't con, DiH was the guy Jose conned the worst.

Brought this up earlier, but nobody has mentioned it:

How did they fund the SamChahuan account with $100,000 when Lock Poker has strict daily deposit limits??

Also wondered this.

someone should investigate all the accounts girah won against during the lock challenge. in my mind theres almost 95% chance Haseeb was aware of the lock challenge - I didn't follow any Girah thread and didn't play on Merge and I was aware of the challenge going on. If he deny so strongly that he knew about it it may be because he has something big to hide, exemple: chipdumping (and possibly MAing?) on more than 1 account to girah during that period to make him win the challenge.

It's possible they were not waiting, Jose was getting crushed lately and even JM couldn't win ghosting his PC, but when he logged in direct on Jose's account he couldn't get any action.

Then after Jose "quits poker" they went after his contacts.

i don't think we are looking for "final details." there is so so much left to be answered.

1) what was the full extent of jungleman's multiaccounting (i.e. who played the high stakes on the girah account, such as the match vs. tyler smith)

2) what were the IPs of the players that jose lost or won money against, especially the ones he lost against? like, was it a scam where he was getting the money to himself or a friend on a different account?

3) what is haseeb's knowledge of all of these scams jose was running (sauron + dollarman scam, other scam involving the player from portugal)? i dunno the best way to get this information, but skype logs would be a start. also, if lock could help us by showing if/when haseeb logged into to jose's account (how often) besides for the matches, we can understand how much due diligence he was doing in terms of monitoring jose's play. if it was substantial, we can probably assume he knew more than he's letting on. also, if somehow we can get jose to talk, i'm sure it would be pretty enlightening.

I think for people to accept Haseeb's statement at this point is just pretty naive and ridiculous. He still hyped up this kid when he knew he was a phony for some crazy and unexplained reason, he still funded a stake with too much money, and he still claims that he did a way less than half-assed job in monitoring a stake with a lot of money on the line (when I think it's likely he was actually monitoring it EXTREMELY well). We still don't know his level of involvement and what happened there, nor do we know what Jungleman did in terms of multiaccounting and who the victims were.

When there are this many questions unanswered and **** just don't add up, then something ain't right...

haseebs statement is all well and good however it requires me to believe Haseeb didn't verify Jose's results before giving him 100k for a stake. This logically I cannot believe.

it seemingly has been concluded that jose's results were indeed fake... why? jus bc he ended up scamming? why couldn't he just be nasty at poker but also incredibly greedy (explaining why he would still do the scam). also, he's 18 - not unlikely that he'd do dumb **** without thinking it through..

I'm Tyler Smith and "tylersmith" on merge. I have had a conversation via text with jungleman all day. I'm going to start a new thread and post the screenshots but i'm having trouble doing it. If anyone can help pm me your ph#

Less bickering (at least the petty kind), more listening and/or reading the interviews. Because it's obvious many of you haven't (and I'm in this thread to hear opinions of certain people who haven't really commented much post-interviews) The full transcription of the 1st interview is up on S:P, here is part of the second:

0:00 Part II, 2nd half


Vanessa Selsbt:
Let's go back to the, uh, can you just pronounce the name of that account so we know we're talking about the same thing?

Daniel Cates:
Um, uh, Toshishan (sp)?

V:
Yeah, Toshishan, ok, so, can you tell us about all the times you played on that account?

D:
LIke twice.

V:
Ok

NoahSD:
And what stakes did you play when you played on it?

D:
Uhh, 10/20... I may have tried to play 5/10 actually, because I was like, just like, trying to get action, uh... like 25/50, like anything, I probably, probably tried everyone at 50/100, uh, 25/50 etc. So I had like a really agressive style of trying to find people to play.

N:
Ok, and what was the purpose of that account originally?

D:
Uh, it was originally Haseeb's account he's been playing on.

N:
Ok... And, so, does Haseeb actually still, like, play poker? Like after that big downswing when he was taking a break for awhile and stuff?

D:
Um, say that again, I'm answering questions. Someone's talking **** and I have to defend myself.

N:
Wait, you're talking on 2p2 right now?

D:
Yeah, yeah yeah, uh, no, no no, not 2p2, someone on skype said durrr goes around Macau and says I'm terrible at heads up, so I have to, I have to show 'em whats up.

N:
(laughs)
Alright, yeah, so, I've been told Haseeb doesn't really play poker anymore, um, so I'm skeptical of you saying an account was mostly used by Haseeb, because that-

D:
It was, in the past. Now, it is not.

N:
Ok, but you've only used it a couple times?

D:
Yeah, and he said, like, he doesn't, he, like, he didn't even use it in forever, he just, like, has it chilling or whatever.

N:
So is there not much play on the account at all?

D:
No. Um, and what I'm confused about is when exactly Girah was using it, becuase yeah, I'm pr-.. Haseeb told me Girah was using it, uh, he was letting Girah use it for basically the same reason, at some point, I don't know when this was, um-

N:
Ok what's the reason?

D:
Because he wasn't, Haseeb wasn't using it so he was letting Girah use it-

N:
Ok

D:
Or he was, I don't know when this was though, that's the thing.

N:
So are these the only accounts you shared, there's SamChauhan-

D:
Yes.

N:
there's Girahh and there's, uh, the Toshishan or whatever?

D:
Yeah, yeah yeah, um, I mean, SamChauchan and Gi-.. Toshishan we're, you could, yeah, essentially had little to no play on them, at least towards the later points. I don't know why people thought that was me playing on the Toshishan account because no one knows about that... and, maybe, maybe it's because the way that I played in, you know, the agressive style I have for, like, trying to find anyone to play or whatever.

N:
Mm hm... So, I mean, you see why it's a little suspicious that, sort of, the 3 accounts that we know are suspect because they came out publically, you're admitting to, but you're not admitting to anything beyond that?

D:
What?!

N:
Um... It... It would be surprising to me if you happened to share 3 accounts with, with Haseeb and Girah but, but there weren't... And those 3 became pubic and there weren't others that you just, that just didn't become public that you're just not mentioning.

D:
Those are the only ones. I just told you something that no one knows.

N:
Ok, well actually a lot-

D:
There's no way or me to tie, there's no way for you guys to tie me to the Toshishan account, to my knowledge, at all possible, and also the same thing with the SamChauhan account, how could you tie me to that? I just told you that. I mean you, it's really, really ridic- upsetting that you're accusing me of, uh, er, you're basically suggesting I could be lying some more and I'm telling you, I'm not lying. (laughs)

N:
Uh, Dan you have to understand you, you just, you have lied to us already and-

D:
I've lied, yeah, I've told you I lied once, yes, that's true.

N:
Yeah well, well let's talk about that lie for a second.

D:
Well I mean logically the other lies don't make any sense, it doesn't make any sense for me to admit to those things-

N:
Ok well let's, well let's talk about this lie. First of all, why, why did you lie about it in the first place?

D:
I believe I just told you, well pretty- you know, ah, the reason why I lied was because Haseeb, um, well first of all, I mean, I care about my reputation I'll just tell you and Haseeb basically, um, he understood that his reputation was basically ****ed, so he wanted to take the fall for me. He just basically did it, uh, there was no discussion about that, he just, like, did it-

V:
Why did he think his reputation was ****ed, like based on what did he think that, you know-

D:
Uh, on the thing on 2p2, he tried to salvage mine, and-

V:
(inaudible) was mostly him playing on this account and this some stuff about, I guess, like, hyping up Jose but it, it seems-

D:
Yeah, yeah yeah-

V:
a lot of speculation, so, I'm just curious as to what Haseeb relayed to you specifically made him think that his reputation was screwed no matter what, and thus made him want to take the fall.

D:
Um, I guess based on what everyone was saying on 2p2? Uh, I guess that's it, because he's telling me, ah I think I got to fall on my sword, I think I'm going to have to take the **** for you or something. That's what he was telling me.

N:
So I mean, this actually costs Haseeb a lot, like, Haseeb was banned from CR, er, not banned, rather fired-

D:
I think... Well, go ahead, sorry.

N:
He was fired from CR, at least they said he was fired from CR because of the multiaccounting, and-

D:
Ok well-

V:
Wait, do you think that's a different, is there a differnt reason for that, is that what you were going to say?

D:
I was going to say that's an excuse for firing him-

V:
Right.

D:
And that's simply not true because people who've done videos have also multiaccounted, um-

N:
So what do you think is the real reason?

D:
Brian Townsend for example. The reasons are for all the **** he's getting on 2p2, and this really is what he was afraid of, that he would get so much **** that it would cost him money in the future.

V:
Ok

D:
I think, I think it's just an excuse because they don't want to, they don't want to come out and post, say, oh Haseeb's fired because he's getting a ton of **** on 2p2, it's like a PR thing to do-

V:
Right- (inaudible)

N:
Even if that's true, you gave them that excuse, right?

D:
Um, Haseeb did, not me.

N:
Ok, but-

V:
Let me-

N:
but it was a lie to protect you that gave him that excuse.

V:
Let me ask-

D:
Yes, that is (inaudible)

V:
Let me ask the question, when you, Dan, we're playing on any of these accounts did Haseeb get any, uh, did Haseeb have a piece of the action?

D:
On SamChauhan he had a piece.

V:
What was his piece?

D:
Half.

V:
Half?

D:
That's one reason why, that's why he owed Jose owed money. He owed Jose 20k, I owed Jose 20k, uh-

N:
So you guys lied about that too.

D:
I didn't lie about that.

N:
Yeah you did. You told us that you owed him 40k for the house.

D:
I did not say that.

N:
Ok (inaudible)

V:
Oh, that's something we should actually ask, what, what's the deal with this, uh, the 45k that Haseeb said that you owed, uh, Jose for a house deposit? A lot of people think this is-

D:
That's, yeah, yeah that's a lie, that's a lie, that's Haseeb's lie, not mine.

V:
Ok, so the real reason you owed him about 40k was for play on the accounts?

D:
Yes, yes that's true.

N:
Why do you guys... Why do you guys lie so much?

D:
Why did I lie so much?

N:
Well, fine, why did Haseeb lie so much?

D:
Um, let me think. Well there... You know, uh, why does Haseeb lie so much, let me think. Yeah basically (laughing throughout) to try and salvage his reputation, and, um, I guess that's why.

N:
Well one of his big lies was, w- hurt his reputation pretty badly.

D:
Uh huh

N:
So, uh-

D:
Yeah, yeah I know, that's why-

N:
He knew that going, the, the 25/50 PLO thing, and he knew that going into it.

D:
Yeah, yeah I can see that.

V:
Right, let's-

N:
You also, when you lied, when you lied to us about the 25/50 PLO thing, you then continued to lie to us because we were skeptical that it was Haseeb playing on the account. Do you remember that?

D:
Yeah, yeah-

N:
So then, we asked you about- or Vanessa asked you-

D:
I mean-

N:
about, um, that whether or not that made sense because 25/50, 4 tabling HU 25/50 PLO-

D:
alright, yes, yes I lied about that

N:
and so then you lied and said that Haseeb had been playing a lot more poker than he's been playing, right?

D:
Um, well, he had been in Orlando, it was, like, diminishing, uh, you know since, since 2011, that is, I mean, yeah, it's sort of an exaggeration, yeah, I mean, you could say it's... (trails off)

9:08 minute mark, Vanessa changes subjects

very well said imo