If you think Haseeb has responded adequately, you've skipped parts of the thread.

This.

"Girah", you make me sick.

maybe i am wrong then, wouldn't be the first time

There's a very well known UK high stakes pro who has done exactly the same thing.

V disappointed in Girah obv. When I played against him on ipoker albeit over a short sample he didn't seem to do anything that would make you think he was on another level.

why'd you get so much?

Why do people continue to play ring around the rosie with **** like this? If you know people who are doing this OUT THEM FFS DONT TRY TO PROTECT THEIR IDENTITY IN ANY WAY.

you obv just have untrustworthy friends, iv never done a trade with anyone who was vouched for that didn't go 100% smooth, the vouching system I would say has 95% success rate in HSNL, maybe in mid-stakes its flawed, but to say its stupid is just an unintelligent comment

seriously. not outting someone who's capable of doing something this low is truly mind boggling.

I really think dog/jungle/sauce need to teamview girah and make all his usernames public on all sites, so we can really get to the bottom of this...thoughts?

Jose wanted to give the group $30,000 in compensation for the time a few of us put into investigating this (me, Moss, TooCurious and one we know in Merge have spent a substantial amount of time), and for setting us up for a scam/scamming two of the players. The other $34,000 I'm sending to Moss and Imfromsweden.

Are you trying to be interesting by telling us you have some kind of inside scoop or are you just plain stupid?

maybe he wants you to stop researching so much, so more information isnt uncovered that he is hiding...take the 30k and laugh and keep searching, there is a lot that more that people dont know..keep up the good work

According to "ilrg"(scam victim), girah/Jose said his ongame account was frozen because Haseeb/dogishead had logged into it. Presumably this is the same "backer" that had been discovered in June to have logged into his account playing hands and winning.

Therefore, there's the connection RIGHT THERE, that Haseeb/dogishead has been scamming people as well, since he has played under girah/Jose's accounts as a "backer".

We now need urgent answers to these questions:

1) Has girah/Jose shared the signnames of people he's talked strategy with and their playing tendencies etc, with Haseeb/dogishead? I'm talking about guys like MossBoss/ilrg/imfromsweden/etc.

2) Has Haseeb/dogishead then gone ahead and played these guys under both HIS OWN SIGNNAME and also other invented but not yet outted signnames, scamming the victims even more than just already reported? The victims so far and others in the strategy group need to delve much deeper into their HH's and see if other players seemingly unrelated to girah/Jose that they had lost big to in recent weeks were in fact operated by Haseeb/dogishead.

3) Since Haseeb/dogishead is traveling with jungleman and both were moving in with girah/Jose, has Haseeb/dogishead shared information of signnames and playing tendencies etc with jungleman as well?

4) Has jungleman himself logged into Jose's accounts just like Haseeb/dogishead did?

5) What is the whole purpose of Haseeb and jungleman travelling together. jungleman was rejected from Canada. They are now in Europe. Do they have a plan of setting up ID's in numerous countries inside the EU and therefore multiple accounts and using these anonymous accounts to play the players that girah/Jose is capable of either ghosting or providing detailed strategy reports regarding their playing tendencies? Was THAT the whole purpose of sharing a house with this Portugese kid to begin with?

In other words, it seems it was sent to pay off the scammed for not pressing charges of theft and fraud, deeds punishable in every other respectable aspect of society. I really hope these two guys rise to the occasion, set an example for the rest of us and show that not evey poker player will just swallow their pride for a few bucks, especially two great players like this for whom that money means practically nothing in the long run.

Does the 30k in bonus "compensation" money that girah is offering on top of the money lost in the scam have any conditions? I am wondering what Girahs incentive is given that the details of the scam are public and his reputation is destroyed.

posting this again because I think it's v v important that Haseeb & jungleman answer these questions ASAP, and no the "traveling so can't log on often" excuse is pure BS. when your reputation is on the line you will log on and defend it. any city in europe has netcafes and they can afford the $$$ to sit there for a few hours and respond in detail, as opposed to the "traveling so can't wade through the stuff on 2p2" excuse that they gave.

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According to "ilrg"(scam victim), girah/Jose said his ongame account was frozen because Haseeb/dogishead had logged into it. Presumably this is the same "backer" that had been discovered in June to have logged into his account playing hands and winning.

Therefore, there's the connection RIGHT THERE, that Haseeb/dogishead has been scamming people as well, since he has played under girah/Jose's accounts as a "backer".

We now need urgent answers to these questions:

1) Has girah/Jose shared the signnames of people he's talked strategy with and their playing tendencies etc, with Haseeb/dogishead? I'm talking about guys like MossBoss/ilrg/imfromsweden/etc.

2) Has Haseeb/dogishead then gone ahead and played these guys under both HIS OWN SIGNNAME and also other invented but not yet outted signnames, scamming the victims even more than just already reported? The victims so far and others in the strategy group need to delve much deeper into their HH's and see if other players seemingly unrelated to girah/Jose that they had lost big to in recent weeks were in fact operated by Haseeb/dogishead.

3) Since Haseeb/dogishead is traveling with jungleman and both were moving in with girah/Jose, has Haseeb/dogishead shared information of signnames and playing tendencies etc with jungleman as well?

4) Has jungleman himself logged into Jose's accounts just like Haseeb/dogishead did?

5) What is the whole purpose of Haseeb and jungleman travelling together. jungleman was rejected from Canada. They are now in Europe. Do they have a plan of setting up ID's in numerous countries inside the EU and therefore multiple accounts and using these anonymous accounts to play the players that girah/Jose is capable of either ghosting or providing detailed strategy reports regarding their playing tendencies? Was THAT the whole purpose of sharing a house with this Portugese kid to begin with?

Playing from anothers account is ofc illegal, but talking strat about other players and sharing reads come on there can be nothing wrong with that.
Also on network eurosites everyone can have multiple accounts and I'm sure all highstakers are aware that they can be playing anyone if they dont recognise the account in question.

Jose offered the 30,000 before we had gone public with this. Me and Moss were in a discussion with Jose trying to sort out the payments, and he offered. We told him clearly this is going public no matter what and if it's as meant as a bribe, we'd decline no matter the size. He said he knows and just wanted to give compensation.

More than that I don't know, unfortunately.

Like the others have said, Jose posted strat instantly pretty much every day for many months.

Now, Moss and I have been discussing whether it's right to post this as we don't want to send people on a wild goose chase, but we think it's relevant so here goes: My experience sweating Jose left me quite surprised as he seemed insecure and unsure what to do in basic situations. Put shortly, the level of his play did not match the level of his strat talk. If I remember correctly I did only sweat him for 20-30 minutes, but this was enough to make me wonder at the time. In the end I chalked it up to him focusing more on 6 max than HU games. I did not mention this to anyone until after Jose was exposed as a cheater. Matt will make a post shortly to clarify what he thought of Jose's play.

Yup, ivvaen has basically said what I also surmised from watching him play for ten minutes. His plays didn't seem downright bad, but he did plenty of things that I would not anticipate anyone who is particularly good at heads up poker doing. I actually noted down seven different hands in a 10 minute period where I thought he made a decision that was not optimal (and in some cases I thought it was a fairly bad mistake). To clarify the matter, and hopefully bulk out our flimsy sample size a little, the matches ivvaen and I watched were two different matches, though again, mine was only for a 10 minute period.

Can someone copy/paste post 904 from the NVG thread into this thread, I'm not sure how to do it but def important to have in this thread

It is possible while chatting to numerous players at the same time that he could copy and paste answers and strat he was getting off players to other high stakes players. Essentially letting two high stakes players talk strat with each other with him in the middle. Similar to what Derron Brown did when he beat numerous grand masters simultaneously in chess by remembering their moves and playing a grandmaster v a grandmaster.

i'm assuming a few posts have been deleted and post 904 is now post 901 in that thread: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=901

Because his strategy talk in videos at least, and posts, might have come from him reading a script handed to him by Haseeb/jungleman or Haseeb posting under his 2p2 account.

We need a 2p2 mod to go through all the posts in the past few months and see if indeed there were outside-Portugese logins into "girah" making strategy posts as well as starting the prodigy thread that started it all.

I think it might help if one of the dudes whom girah pestered to play one of these guys while he TVed them could post that chat log.