We don't really know how much money he actually has/had and also don't know he's really successful at poker at all. I agree there's probably more to the full story as it would make more sense that he was a cheater from the get go, as opposed to a legitimate poker player who just goes AWOL one day and decides from here on out to scam everyone. Who's to say the graphs/pt screenshots he posted up aren't a result of various people getting cheated over time, filtered results, etc. It would be pretty easy to attain godlike win rates if you are literally looking at your opponents cards the whole time. All I know is that i'm assuming the worst from here on out, especially after his reaction to the skype group when they confronted him. He actually tried to gain some sympathy after slowly driving a knife into everyones back! Jose, words can't even describe how big of a scumbag you really are.

I didn't dare post in nvg. I saw someone mention JJProdigy in the same sentence as this dude on page 1, laughed and resisted from posting.

As has been discussed many times.

On a scale of 1-10 in scumminess, multiaccounting tournaments is on the absolute bottom. (A lot of live guys STILL don't even think its cheating even though anyone smart realize its consensus cheating now, funny I still talk to some that don't think its cheating)

and what Jose did is 10/10 lock him up throw away the key. (with regards to poker community metaphorically speaking)

Please tell us you are pressing legal charges? Can the people scammed please just let us know their thoughts on pursuing legal means?

I prefer the NVG conspiracy theory that he isn't a poker player at all but merely a ghosted account/brainchild creation/puppet of Haseeb/Jungleman

Oh snap, he hasn't paid back yet? Yikes.

so if x player with join date this month shows up in hsnlxfer thread and needs transfer for a large sum and immediately a known and reputable member of the community posts after saying this guy is legit,they're not somewhat responsible when x ****s over y.

get a grip of reality bro.

DIH put a lot of time and energy into making this guy who he is and where he stood a couple of days ago.

it becomes more and more obvious that he's just a breakeven midstakes reg with his lock results/known ipoker account yet DIH had no problem posting a graph without sn's (one would assume he knew the sn's ect) in the OP here:-

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...rodigy-990495/

the fact that he scammed people for such a comparatively small amount to what was said he made/what was on the line to lose(sponsorship,coaching,vid training deals) is just the most incongruent part of it all.

Yeah, didn't edit in time but I had no idea about that the quote had purposely been taken out of context.
We agree about the rest.

I saw in the other thread that you didn't know how hard these guys had pushed Girah, and that's some info you might be missing, to be honest. They pushed him extremely hard, and it seems there is evidence that Haseeb even proofread or straight up wrote some of his posts/blog.

they are, i've acknowledged this, and it's not even remotely comparable to what Girah did

i think your missing the point

So if his scam worked and he ended up living with JM/DIH as a fraud/breakeven/meh midstakes reg, living the life of a poker boss and learning from the best, I wonder if he plays legitimately from then on or if he had his sites set on scamming them for the big monies.

Guess I'm wondering whether this was a plot by a poker player to become amazing at poker, or if the poker community just seemed like an easy target.

I must say though, if Jose is a breakeven midstakes reg, I'm really impressed with his ability to get where he was before being outed. (I.e. sponsorship, big threads, haseeb/jungleman moving in w/ him/access to all highstakes people/ability to setup the endgame of his scam cheating)

He's a piece of **** obviously but still, I think it would be easier to win at poker than to pull off an epic scam if thats what he did. Like in a "Catch Me If You Can" sort of way. Admiring the creativity not the terrible act of fraud/stealing itself.

Scummy but *facepalm for falling for this lol

The whole vouching system is just insanely stupid. Any other analysis of it is just plain wrong.

We had his Lock poker account, uh, locked for investigation. We have a guy who works high up who's confirmed Jose has funds in his account, and has confirmed that Jose has sent Merge (the network Lock is on) two mails asking for $30,000 to be transferred to my account. The payments for the actual scamming will go through wire.

I wasn't one of those who lost money to Jose, so I can't tell what the others are thinking about legal charges. I'll let you know.

Edit: I was just told $64,000 are being transferred to my account for the scam + compensation.

he probably is pretty busto

tons of well off ppl do some really stupid stuff when it comes to making more money. see full tilt poker etc

Um, no. The vouching system is not stupid at all, when used in its purest form. People develop trust with people in this world, but look to network, and in poker a lot of trust/credit is needed for action to occur.

When A is best friends with B and C knows that A is a very trustworthy highstakes player from experience... And C is hosting a poker game/needs money online and B can help/any thing involving trust/vouching then A can vouch for C and make the transaction effective that never would have taken place had A not vouched for B, because B has no idea who C is.

How is that stupid one bit?

Your analysis is just plain wrong.

The above example is a perfect example of the vouch system.

I knew Sam Stein well enough through mutual friends (Aaron Been/others/sam stein) knew who I was. We were deep in the 10k PLO and Durrr wanted to bet on him winning. I tried to book it. Durrrr didn't know who I was. (Obv anti-brag) He said find a vouch buddy. Stein vouched! Boom bet booked!

Then, I gave Stein a 1k freeroll if I won the 10k PLO after I busted durrr for vouching for helping me win the bet!

Another vouching success story, one that wasn't hypothetical!

Many transfers go on everyday with the vouching system too. How is that stupid? You seem plain wrong.

can someone that has talked strat with jose please tell me if it was done to a high level fairly instantly, or if there was always a delay on the more advanced stuff you talked about. i just cant believe he is capable of crushing like his posted stats showed. obv when i was playing the sauron1989 account he was usually hustling maxkatz1 so plays Vs him can be accounted for, but on girah account the guy was too abc even for merge 1k.

just feel he has invented girah and his poker abilities then needed the $ to back up his status

His chat was instant when we discussed strat. This was over a 4-5 month period.

I've talked a lot of strategy with him, and from what I remember it has always been pretty instant.

Freudian slip FTW

Could all the morons please stick to NVG please, if I wanted to wade through page after page of random busto ramblings about their take on something they have no right to comment on I would read the thread there with great sustained interest
thx guys

Maybe Sauron1989 is IPoker super user , in Ipoker are so bad and they always win . Maybe Machado was right . Sauron was bad but who can beat the super user insider

What does this even mean?

Obviously vouches are not going to turn out to be correct 100% of the time but when you enter into a financial transaction with someone you obviously assume that risk.

Having a system that fails a very small % of the time is obviously better than having no such system and trusting nobody.

Friendships / business relationships are often formed through mutual friends, who were formed thru mutual friends, etc etc etc. It's the same reason a girl trusts (and should trust) a good guy friend of a close friend of hers more than some random dude at a bar.

This entire situation is extremely unfortunate, but I don't believe the blame should fall at all on Haseeb + Jungle. They've both responded adequately in this thread IMO. Perhaps they were too trusting, but perhaps Girah was also extremely careful / intelligent about his scheming

pretty fishy smell coming from dogishead / haseeb qureshi imo

Eh. I probably shouldn't have just dropped a controversial and tangential sentiment in a thread about something else. I'll try and write up my thoughts about vouching at some point and post it somewhere and we can argue about it in an appropriate place.

Sorry for the derail.