Disgusted!

Need to repost this from Ivvaen, one of the guys on the skype "sweating" team.


"Now, when it comes to the sweating. The point of it was to rail in real time and comment after. Personally, I never got sweated by anyone, but I sweated Jose playing a random fish one time. I did comment in real time on hands and I acknowledge that this is wrong and I should not have done it. It was not my intention when talking about sweating in the first place, and I consider it a mistake and will never do it again. This was the only time I have been involved in any type of sweating as long as I have played poker. From talks with the other guys it seems like they all merely sweated and that any real time communication was extremely limited. I believe this."

Now, you guys are good at probabilities, right? What are the chances that NONE of that stuff was going on besides what is mentioned in his post?

Please, educate me.

wow this is the scummiest form of cheating, this whole thing makes me nauseous.

Tommyhawkers is dead on right here about everything he wrote. Hope all of that happens quickly. Well said

Yeah, because what you guys do is perfectly fine.

Ok, got it...no one's going to address whether it's ok to give advice during live sessions.
Makes me laugh that these are the same people who sit on a ****ing Dali horse to complain about getting scammed and about the lack of ethics in the poker world.

Give me a ****ing break...

fwiw i played some hands against toshisan at 10/20 huplo less then a week ago at 10/20 huplo. he seemed pretty spewy. does girah play plo?

his location was either tokyo or japan, cant remember

Dear Land of the Free, please read the 2p2 coaching sections, see how many OPS state that they coach by means of live sweat. Why haven't you bombarded their threads with your opinions?

On top of that, think about how many dual player videos have been made by training sites. The fact that these videos go up without it being a problem makes it pretty clear that there is certainly not a distinct line that says "sweating=cheating, anyone who lets anybody watch their screen is a cheat and should be banned." Your opinion is your opinion, you are obviously entitled to that, but please don't say stuff like "cheating against other people online" when it is certainly not gospel that letting someone watch your screen= cheating them.

Do you play high stakes poker or know any of the guys personally that you're accusing?

take it to the NVG thread.

pretty sick. i wonder how much money girah really stole from people over time, and if any money went to the people behind him.

will we ever find out the whole truth ? who knows. but whats on the surface is disgusting

There is a huge difference between giving advice once the hand is over (the essence of coaching, except with instant feedback) and giving advice on how to play a hand as it's happening!

Can't you see that? Are you really questioning whether it's ok?

Would you think it's ok if you're playing someone live and he shows his friend his cards and they talk together about the best way to play the hand?
Because that's exactly what Ivvaen admitted to doing.

If you really need TOS to tell you that this is wrong, I really feel sorry for you and you're clearly a complete scumbag.
So what, would you rape girls if there weren't a law making it illegal? I don't understand, is the only way to determine what is right or wrong through Terms of Services?

The line seems pretty clear to me. Feeback is ok, advice on how to play the hand as it's happening isn't.
It worries me that you guys are even questioning this. Says a lot about the state of the ethical standards of the HS community overall.

Edit: Threads about live sweat aren't bombarded with this opinion because I always thought there was a difference between "live sweat" and playing someone's hands for him.

Are you saying there isn't?

Why? Does one have to submit proof of playing HS games to be allowed to post here?

This is relevant and since most of HS don't check NVG (can't blame them), this should be fine.

I'm not trolling, I think my english is ok. I'm asking a serious question and trying to see whether anyone here can agree that there's a clear line between giving feedback (by definition after the fact) and giving advice on a live hand.

From the responses and lack of responses so far, I get the impression that, as I said before, this (and by this I mean telling people how to play their hands) is prevalent behavior and I want to address it.

Problem with that?

Thought too eazy post should go in HSNL thread as he posted this in NVG

jungle and haseeb need to post in this thread asap, including all info they have on this guy.

He was trying to scam everyone he could on twoplustwo and the fact that jungleman and dogishead were at his place until last night and kept vouching for a kid who seems to be broke needs to be addressed. Also, I wonder if they are giving him any of the money he will be using to pay back everything he gained from cheating plus the 30,000 extra.

Land of the free,, Can you please refrain from clogging this thread with the ridiculous discussion about sweating! I like to use this thread to keep up with proceedings because it's concise, all the key points are in here, and there are lots of well-respected posters and not loads of NVGers. I would appreciate it if you could respect this, and stay on topic in this thread. The whole sweating issue has been discussed endlessly in the past, and this is not the time or place to go over it again. Thanks,

Ok, I'm gone. It's clear I'm not going to get any responses anyway and I didn't really expect to.

Kind of sad that the HS community came to the conclusion that cheating is perfectly fine and considers discussion about it "ridiculous".
I know that not everyone here is rotten, but it sure is pretty damn close to 100%, apparently.

Good to know, I guess.

pokerstrategy told us (its customers) that they have verified his story before hiring him as a coach, as they were aware of the accusations on 2+2. I hope they'll share the information they have on him.

this is a ridiculous try to squeeze empathy.
it's annoying as he keeps try bull****ing even in his "sorry" post.

mods can you please delete and threaten to temp-ban morons that need to be relegated to nvg?

re: jose macedo: despicable

Dear Land of the Free, in case you didn't know, this is the "The Portuguese Poker Prodigy José “Girah” Macedo Scammed HSNL players for >$30,000 NVG xpos" thread not the "the ethics of ghosting" thread. gtfo

Well, i can only speak for my sessions, but girah was never playing the hand for me and I never asked his advice. On top of that, ivvaen is not me, so please don't take his admission as what I've done, before you just go out calling me a scumbag. Feedback was exactly what I anticipated I would get (I didn't even get that). I was however, always under the impression that Live sweat coaching did involve thoughts about the hand mid-hand, but I wasn't being coached, I was just letting him watch as a favour.

It was the same with me. He didn't tell me how to play or anything. Only feedback I got was: "you should 3bet more in position - especially fish like sauron1989" and "you played that hand perfect". Other than that he just watched it without commenting. I wanted some feedback afterwards but that kinda never happened.

How disappointing that a fellow Portuguese person would do something like this. On a brighter note 2+2 delivers again.

I doubt it. Lately they hired obviously loosing player as midstakes judge/coach:
http://www.pokerstrategy.com/forum/t...hreadid=141738

They pretend that they checked him but in fact they didn't. When accusation apeearead they finally confirm that they didn't. If they weren't such a big company it could be as bad and Jason Ho/ Nick Grudzien scandall that destroyed stoxpoker.

This is terribly sad. I can't say I feel bad for Jose'. He cheated, got caught, and then confessed. Cheating is obviously never ok, but it is even worse in this case. Scamming your friends, and people like sauce who are helping you for free makes me sick. It really speaks volumes to someones character, and it's sad to see someone who looked really promising and driven stoop to cheating.

I love this community, and it would be even better if we could trust everyone from the micros to the nosebleeds, but this is just a reminder that we can't. People do sick things for money.