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Old 12-16-2010, 12:11 AM   #1
J_V
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Multiaccounting Discussion

When did the memo come out that MA'ing was ok now?


Or are we still going with MAing is stealing and unethical but a bunch of players - especially players with commerce connections still do it regulalry and no one talks about it?
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Old 12-16-2010, 01:47 AM   #2
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Re: setting the record str8

If everyone who knew about someone who had MA'd in the last 2 years(post BT scandal) posted about that person, I'm guessing close to of the players playing 5/10+ online would be outed.

so while most people say MA'ing is bad, most players know of someone doing it...but by outing them they risk that player just getting a new SN. People feel its better to be aware someone is MA'ing than out them for being a cheater.
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Old 12-16-2010, 02:50 AM   #3
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Re: setting the record str8

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Originally Posted by riverboatking View Post
ya lets just drop the whole MA thing.
it was wrong of me to bring up in the first place, it had nothing to do with the issue i was upset about it and was just venting cuz i was so pissed that he was spreading lies about me.

there is really nothing to be gained by trying to rip someone down...the issue has been gone over to death and i don't want this to turn into another MA debate.
I realize its a hijack, so I will drop it, but at some point, I would like to debate the MA thing again since the concensus seems to be changing pretty drasticly as the landscape gets tougher. I mean everyone here knows how prevalent MAing is and they just don't want to the only ones fighting the policing fight. It's really annoying when people in this thread are admitting to it and/or justifying stealing and even more frustrating when FTP pros are totally clueless that its against the rules.

It's all good for the players in the know or who play at commerce a lot who hear who is doing what - but it makes the games unplayable for those of us not privileged to that information. I don't have many high stakes friends and kind've play on my own little island, and it sucks to find out about an MA account like a year after the fact. Here is a 5 handed nosebleed game I walked into recently:

Player 1: Site pro and admitted shared/team account
Player 2 and 3: Site pro/training site pros talking about player 4 and that they think they might know who
Player 4 (not a regular high stakes player): who is an obvious multi-account
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Old 12-16-2010, 03:39 AM   #4
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Re: setting the record str8

good to see everyone trying to deflect the MA accusations since everyone else does it. standard.
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Old 12-16-2010, 03:53 AM   #5
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Re: setting the record str8

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Originally Posted by nadical View Post
good to see everyone trying to deflect the MA accusations since everyone else does it. standard.
bad read.
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Old 12-16-2010, 04:09 AM   #6
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Re: setting the record str8

would people be opposed to starting something like an official MAing thread where douchebags who do MA can be vilified/burned at the stake, people can "debate" the "gray area" so said douchebags can sleep a little better at night, and most importantly it could be a resource for when a new name pops up and someone wants to blow the whistle and alert people or even just throw out some theories, etc.

a lot of people are not as connected to the grape vine as others and would be a pretty big service to them, imo.
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Old 12-16-2010, 04:24 AM   #7
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Re: setting the record str8

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Originally Posted by thatpfunk View Post
would people be opposed to starting something like an official MAing thread where douchebags who do MA can be vilified/burned at the stake, people can "debate" the "gray area" so said douchebags can sleep a little better at night, and most importantly it could be a resource for when a new name pops up and someone wants to blow the whistle and alert people or even just throw out some theories, etc.

a lot of people are not as connected to the grape vine as others and would be a pretty big service to them, imo.
As someone whose MAing doesn't extend beyond 2p2, I would love this.
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Old 12-16-2010, 05:10 AM   #8
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Re: setting the record str8

Quote:
Originally Posted by thatpfunk View Post
would people be opposed to starting something like an official MAing thread where douchebags who do MA can be vilified/burned at the stake, people can "debate" the "gray area" so said douchebags can sleep a little better at night, and most importantly it could be a resource for when a new name pops up and someone wants to blow the whistle and alert people or even just throw out some theories, etc.

a lot of people are not as connected to the grape vine as others and would be a pretty big service to them, imo.
This thread and the fees thread yesterday reminder me how often when a scandal breaks here there's usually a slew of respected people who come in and post "not surprised by this, he did x on y date". Seems like a ton people don't post shady stuff because they're close to that person, they're the only one that knows about it, they don't want to end up a pariah, they don't like confrontation or they don't want the light cast back on themselves?

Which got me thinking about a thread like the BBV confessions thread from a few years back where a respected 2+2er/mod sets up an email address which people can then mail anonymously, and the mod posts it in the thread. Seems like with a thread like this RBK could have found this out months ago and then addressed it in it's own thread before t got out of hand.
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Old 12-16-2010, 05:21 AM   #9
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Re: setting the record str8

Isn't that a recipe for libel?
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Old 12-16-2010, 05:31 AM   #10
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Re: setting the record str8

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Originally Posted by Daddy Warbucks View Post
This thread and the fees thread yesterday reminder me how often when a scandal breaks here there's usually a slew of respected people who come in and post "not surprised by this, he did x on y date". Seems like a ton people don't post shady stuff because they're close to that person, they're the only one that knows about it, they don't want to end up a pariah, they don't like confrontation or they don't want the light cast back on themselves?
There's no incentive to be proactive; it will just lead to having to defend the statement. But it's definitely wise to make sure someone has references or ask around about someone before you do any meaningful 'business'.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddy Warbucks View Post
Which got me thinking about a thread like the BBV confessions thread from a few years back where a respected 2+2er/mod sets up an email address which people can then mail anonymously, and the mod posts it in the thread. Seems like with a thread like this RBK could have found this out months ago and then addressed it in it's own thread before t got out of hand.
This wouldn't work, since it could obviously be trolled. And for example, if a rando posts that 'Daddy Warbucks' did 'this evil thing', it wouldn't really mean anything to me, but if cts did it, I'd avoid you like the plague.
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Old 12-16-2010, 05:45 AM   #11
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Re: setting the record str8

What about people PM'ing a mod then and then they make a decision on the source as to whether to post it or not?

And i agree that there's no personal incentive to be proactive, the only reason to do it is as a selfless service to the community. EDIT: Oh and revenge/malicious reasons too.
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Old 12-16-2010, 06:12 PM   #12
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Re: setting the record str8

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Originally Posted by jalexand42 View Post
This thread is a huge cluster, but if Ashton didn't disclose it was him on this other account, then LOL @ your assertion. If he didn't disclose it, it's EXACTLY the same thing as what Townsend did, in fact you can argue that it is worse because there's definitely no gray area with regard to this issue any more.
Except for the fact that tons of people know about other people MAing and nothing happens. The sites find out and again nothing happens, because it's so hard to prove/enforce this rule.
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Old 12-16-2010, 06:17 PM   #13
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Re: setting the record str8

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Originally Posted by Wauwzors View Post
Except for the fact that tons of people know about other people MAing and nothing happens. The sites find out and again nothing happens, because it's so hard to prove/enforce this rule.
This is tangential to the question of whether multi-accounting is unethical and whether multi-accounters are, as such, behaving unethically when they engage in said activity.
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Old 12-17-2010, 04:40 AM   #14
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Multiaccounting Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskaborr View Post
Isn't it odd a bunch of the "big names" never come in alleged ma threads and trash the person?
+1 With regard to multi accounting. I read the other day that a couple of years ago JMAN was playing Roland de Wolfe at 300/600nl and he was 90% sure it was Patrick Antonius. Hoss_tbf also said that Patrick had played him on another SN and took him for quite a sum of money...

Seems that even the Sponsored Pros do this kind of thing so how can the sites enforce anything.
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Old 12-17-2010, 06:29 AM   #15
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Re: setting the record str8

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Originally Posted by THEFLY____21 View Post
+1 With regard to multi accounting. I read the other day that a couple of years ago JMAN was playing Roland de Wolfe at 300/600nl and he was 90% sure it was Patrick Antonius. Hoss_tbf also said that Patrick had played him on another SN and took him for quite a sum of money...
90% != 100%.
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Old 12-17-2010, 01:32 PM   #16
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Re: setting the record str8

Letting this thread devolve into ethics of MA is stupid. Issue has been resolved: it's cheating > not as benign as datamining, not as nefarious as superusing. Move on.
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Old 12-17-2010, 02:24 PM   #17
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Quote:
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90% != 100%.
For there to ever be a change somebody has to first break a rule. I don't see the sites trying to protect people who follow their rules either. When I play online I always assume I can be playing anybody at any given moment, why should it be any different? Time has shown rules you can't enforce are pointless. I refuse to be a victim, let alone a vestless cripple with a flashing neon sign above my head in a world full of cutthroats. How are we as a community not all for no holds barred multiaccounting(when the site won't provide a realistic alternative)? There are huds, ptr, datamining, coaches, sweat teams and people exchanging reads on forums and in private and multiaccounters are the scum of the lot? Each single thing listed takes more away from the purity of the game. How do you guys get to pick and choose which rules you want to follow and by what logic are you choosing them because I haven't got a clue how it makes one damn bit of sense.
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Old 12-17-2010, 03:59 PM   #18
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Re: setting the record str8

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Originally Posted by Eskaborr View Post
For there to ever be a change somebody has to first break a rule. I don't see the sites trying to protect people who follow their rules either. When I play online I always assume I can be playing anybody at any given moment, why should it be any different? Time has shown rules you can't enforce are pointless. I refuse to be a victim, let alone a vestless cripple with a flashing neon sign above my head in a world full of cutthroats. How are we as a community not all for no holds barred multiaccounting(when the site won't provide a realistic alternative)? There are huds, ptr, datamining, coaches, sweat teams and people exchanging reads on forums and in private and multiaccounters are the scum of the lot? Each single thing listed takes more away from the purity of the game. How do you guys get to pick and choose which rules you want to follow and by what logic are you choosing them because I haven't got a clue how it makes one damn bit of sense.
You don't have to pick and choose. Merely playing in accordance with the terms of service of the poker sites where you play should suffice.
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Old 12-17-2010, 07:19 PM   #19
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Re: setting the record str8

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Originally Posted by Nick Rivers View Post
You don't have to pick and choose. Merely playing in accordance with the terms of service of the poker sites where you play should suffice.
that's far too reasonable sir.
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Old 12-17-2010, 08:27 PM   #20
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that's far too reasonable sir.
Cool, if ftp and 2p2 told you to suck dick you'd probably do that to. Nick, you don't use ptr? Huds? Datamined hands? Always play one person per hand? Either way you are in the minority if you do and 2p2 accepts some tos breakage just not others.
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Old 12-17-2010, 08:57 PM   #21
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Re: setting the record str8

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Cool, if ftp and 2p2 told you to suck dick you'd probably do that to.
Real classy.
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Old 12-18-2010, 12:23 AM   #22
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Re: setting the record str8

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Originally Posted by Eskaborr View Post
Cool, if ftp and 2p2 told you to suck dick you'd probably do that to. Nick, you don't use ptr? Huds? Datamined hands? Always play one person per hand? Either way you are in the minority if you do and 2p2 accepts some tos breakage just not others.

sick thinking: some people cheat, so everyone should cheat too so that its fair.


some things are breaking the rules of a poker site, others are not. I don't see whats so difficult to understand here, other than you justifying past MA'ing?
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Old 12-18-2010, 12:44 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AceCR9 View Post
sick thinking: some people cheat, so everyone should cheat too so that its fair.


some things are breaking the rules of a poker site, others are not. I don't see whats so difficult to understand here, other than you justifying past MA'ing?
Its only cheating because you call it cheating. The rules need changed. Yes I'm justifying it and always will, I also
encourage everyone else to do the same. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of this community where you hate some cheaters but praise others. I'd also bet its a favorite most of you cheat.

Cheating/hustling/breaking rules are all interchangeable.

For example, most of you swung from team jews nuts when they posted blatant hustling/cheating (afaiwi) in the form of the perkysmerky video.
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Old 12-18-2010, 03:03 AM   #24
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Re: setting the record str8

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Originally Posted by Eskaborr View Post
Cool, if ftp and 2p2 told you to suck dick you'd probably do that to. Nick, you don't use ptr? Huds? Datamined hands? Always play one person per hand? Either way you are in the minority if you do and 2p2 accepts some tos breakage just not others.
AFAIK sucking dick is not a term of service at any poker site I play on. Incidentally, HUDs aren't against the terms of service either, are they? AFAIK it is also not against the terms of service to use PTR; it only becomes a breach if you use it while playing. As for datamined hands, I don't use them.

So, good try putting up a 100% waste of a post to deflect from the fact that it unequivocally is a breach of the terms of service at most major sites to multi-account, but it's not going to work. It's a question of ethics, not about who is in the minority for behaving in a non-douchebaggish fashion. If anything, what you're talking about is an indictment of the poor ethical standards in the poker community, not an argument in favor being a dick. It is clear that you have elected to circle the drain with the rest of the worst of our element as opposed to actually having principles and trying to improve things. That's your choice, but you can be certain I don't respect it, and I'm sure others feel the same way. IMO multi-accounting is cheating, and if you do it, you're a cheater and should be regarded as such.

Did you ever stop and think why poker historically has had such a bad reputation, and why it is generally illegal? It's in no small part because poker players were rightly regarded as cheaters, hustlers, and outright thieves. It has taken over a century for poker to begin to shed this image, but it keeps getting tarnished by big scandals and further crippled by small-time cheaters engaging in the very behavior you advocate. There is no doubt that the people who do what you espouse are both greedy and shortsighted. For one, they tarnish the reputation of the very industry they seek to profit from, thereby diminishing their future opportunities - essentially shooting themselves in the foot for a quick buck. Secondly, they destroy their own good names which, ultimately, are all they have to trade on.
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Old 12-18-2010, 03:58 AM   #25
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Re: setting the record str8

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AFAIK sucking dick is not a term of service at any poker site I play on. Incidentally, HUDs aren't against the terms of service either, are they? AFAIK it is also not against the terms of service to use PTR; it only becomes a breach if you use it while playing. As for datamined hands, I don't use them.

So, good try putting up a 100% waste of a post to deflect from the fact that it unequivocally is a breach of the terms of service at most major sites to multi-account, but it's not going to work. It's a question of ethics, not about who is in the minority for behaving in a non-douchebaggish fashion. If anything, what you're talking about is an indictment of the poor ethical standards in the poker community, not an argument in favor being a dick. It is clear that you have elected to circle the drain with the rest of the worst of our element as opposed to actually having principles and trying to improve things. That's your choice, but you can be certain I don't respect it, and I'm sure others feel the same way. IMO multi-accounting is cheating, and if you do it, you're a cheater and should be regarded as such.

Did you ever stop and think why poker historically has had such a bad reputation, and why it is generally illegal? It's in no small part because poker players were rightly regarded as cheaters, hustlers, and outright thieves. It has taken over a century for poker to begin to shed this image, but it keeps getting tarnished by big scandals and further crippled by small-time cheaters engaging in the very behavior you advocate. There is no doubt that the people who do what you espouse are both greedy and shortsighted. For one, they tarnish the reputation of the very industry they seek to profit from, thereby diminishing their future opportunities - essentially shooting themselves in the foot for a quick buck. Secondly, they destroy their own good names which, ultimately, are all they have to trade on.
+1 for everything you said in this thread. Much appreciated actually. Not sure why others are not up in arms with what Eskaborr has said in this thread.
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