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Old 03-01-2014, 10:24 PM   #1
samothraki
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Kanu7 shoves river 25-50

    Poker Stars, $25/$50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #24228051

    SB: $5,271.20 (105.4 bb)
    Hero (BB): $5,159.15 (103.2 bb)
    MP: $8,141 (162.8 bb)
    CO: $4,172.49 (83.4 bb)
    BTN: $1,406.31 (28.1 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with Q J
    MP folds, CO raises to $112.50, 2 folds, Hero raises to $362.50, CO calls $250

    Flop: ($750) J J T (2 players)
    Hero bets $373.50, CO calls $373.50

    Turn: ($1,497) K (2 players)
    Hero checks, CO checks

    River: ($1,497) 9 (2 players)
    Hero bets $1,045.80, CO raises to $3,436.49 and is all-in, Hero calls $2,390.69

    Spoiler:



    Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.



    What do you guys think about this hand?
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    Old 03-02-2014, 03:12 AM   #2
    kutty
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    Re: Kanu7 shoves river 25-50

    better to post without results
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    Old 03-02-2014, 11:36 AM   #3
    TheLuckFactor
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    Re: Kanu7 shoves river 25-50

    He has a full house. A full house is a good hand.

    When you have a good hand in no limit holdem, it's often best to wager it all.
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    Old 03-02-2014, 11:37 AM   #4
    beauvanlaanen
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    post without results. pretty gross spot, I however am not qualified to comment lol.
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    Old 03-02-2014, 11:37 AM   #5
    beauvanlaanen
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheLuckFactor View Post
    He has a full house. A full house is a good hand.

    When you have a good hand in no limit holdem, it's often best to wager it all.
    great insight bud!
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    Old 03-02-2014, 01:54 PM   #6
    KRANTZ
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    Re: Kanu7 shoves river 25-50

    Time is a flat circle
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    Old 03-02-2014, 05:04 PM   #7
    fityfmi
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    Re: Kanu7 shoves river 25-50

    I'm not playing HSNL, but seems to me that there is not much else to do than call with our blocker.
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    Old 03-02-2014, 06:11 PM   #8
    OnTilt24/7
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    Re: Kanu7 shoves river 25-50

    I think you should c/c the river. A value bet seems too thin. I don't see many worse hands in his range that are paying you off. Possibly AJ or AK if he doesnt 4bet AK pre and calls the flop. But if he's calling the flop with AK AQ is also in his range. I don't think he would play aces this way and hands like A10 are folding. It seems like a pretty clear c/c.

    Last edited by OnTilt24/7; 03-02-2014 at 06:20 PM.
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    Old 03-03-2014, 04:04 PM   #9
    smellmuth
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    Re: Kanu7 shoves river 25-50

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by OnTilt24/7 View Post
    I think you should c/c the river. A value bet seems too thin. I don't see many worse hands in his range that are paying you off. Possibly AJ or AK if he doesnt 4bet AK pre and calls the flop. But if he's calling the flop with AK AQ is also in his range. I don't think he would play aces this way and hands like A10 are folding. It seems like a pretty clear c/c.
    c/c and then say 'i KNEW he had that'.
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    Old 03-03-2014, 07:13 PM   #10
    LongTimeNoSee
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    Re: Kanu7 shoves river 25-50

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by smellmuth View Post
    c/c and then say 'i KNEW he had that'.
    why cant the other player turn something like 88 or AT in a bluff on this river? With our J blocker we have a perfect bluffcatcher to c/c.

    b/c here seems like a metagame thing to me. with other words i cant understand the thought process behind the turn or the river play.

    On the turn we use our hand as a bluffcatcher and when our opponent refuses to bet we turn it into a valuebet again, as the river didnt change much about the hands we beat? doesnt seems like a sound logic.
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    Old 03-04-2014, 01:20 PM   #11
    hashy
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    Re: Kanu7 shoves river 25-50

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KRANTZ View Post
    where do we find all of these genius threads lol
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    Old 03-04-2014, 05:23 PM   #12
    Keatz_
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    Re: Kanu7 shoves river 25-50

    He is not jamming any river in that spot without a boat IMO. I don't know how wide is range is opening from the CO, but these games can get very wet so I am going to assume it is decently wide. I also assume he isn't bet/folding pre so that still leaves room for hands like KJ K10, Q10, Q9, J9 and low pocket pairs. That flop then hits his range very very well, and if you are C-betting a high percentage of the time then if he has a big draw then he will raise it on the flop. When he just calls you can eliminate most hands except AQ, A10, J10, j9, pocket nines, or maybe a very weak draw, even though I don't think so because you made a very strong c-bet. When he checks the turn on a scare card like that it is clear he is only calling for showdown value on most rivers for value, unless he grabs his case card where he did right here. When another connecting card falls on the river there are a lot of hands that now beat you in this spot so making a value bet can be very susceptible to a re raise. Also if he put you on the jack the entire time he might think you are folding to a bluff a decent percentage of the time on that river.

    I would say if you were to play this different you should just check call the river. IMO. tough hand
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    Old 03-05-2014, 10:32 AM   #13
    WTFIJustDid
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    Re: Kanu7 shoves river 25-50

    your river bet makes no sense, and river call is even worst, this is the bottom of your value betting range IMO so if you call that you gotta have to hope hes bluffing a **** ton. i dont get why you are betting the river in the first place, he may be calling AJ sometimes but thats the only hand you are getting value from.

    i think turn is a really good spot for a slowplay oop so because of that i still think river ranges will be pretty strong both way, i understand the j9 shove but actually think its pretty thin
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    Old 03-06-2014, 01:14 AM   #14
    whatwonder
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    Re: Kanu7 shoves river 25-50

    Why are you 3betting this pre?
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    Old 03-07-2014, 01:51 AM   #15
    Mench
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    Re: Kanu7 shoves river 25-50

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KRANTZ View Post
    Thank you so much for this bump. Made me nostalgic.
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    Old 03-07-2014, 12:31 PM   #16
    whatwonder
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    Re: Kanu7 shoves river 25-50

    and what year did we start calling them "3bets"?
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    Old 03-09-2014, 02:14 AM   #17
    greg nice
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    Re: Kanu7 shoves river 25-50

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samothraki View Post
    What do you guys think about this hand?
    what do you think about it? explain your river thought process
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    Old 03-10-2014, 02:18 AM   #18
    Mayox
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    Re: Kanu7 shoves river 25-50

    could c/f river like a boss
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    Old 03-10-2014, 01:01 PM   #19
    vinivici9586
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    Re: Kanu7 shoves river 25-50

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mayox View Post
    could c/jam river like a boss
    fyp

    Last edited by vinivici9586; 03-10-2014 at 01:02 PM. Reason: thanks phil g!
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    Old 03-17-2014, 01:16 PM   #20
    mumuyun
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    Re: Kanu7 shoves river 25-50

    Any Static for Kanu7??
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    Old 03-18-2014, 09:26 PM   #21
    samothraki
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    Re: Kanu7 shoves river 25-50

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by greg nice View Post
    what do you think about it? explain your river thought process
    i think that i have to fold river raise, cause he cannot arrive there with enough hands he will need to bluf.
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    Old 03-20-2014, 08:24 AM   #22
    greg nice
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    Re: Kanu7 shoves river 25-50

    lol. how about why did you bet the river in the first place?
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    Old 03-20-2014, 11:43 AM   #23
    samothraki
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    Re: Kanu7 shoves river 25-50

    cause i can get value from a lot of hands
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    Old 03-20-2014, 02:35 PM   #24
    Griffey24
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    Re: Kanu7 shoves river 25-50

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samothraki View Post
    cause i can get value from a lot of hands
    I find it weird that you say "a lot of hand" cause I can hardly think of any.

    Hands that beat you that may take this line (ck turn and jamming river):
    JT(1),TT(3),KJ(3),99(6),J9(1) - 14
    Somewhat less likely - flushes and AQ (total combos 2)
    Total combos that beat you - 16

    Hands that you beat that may take this line and CALL river:
    KTs(3), AJ(4) - 7

    Hands that you chop that may take this line and CALL river:
    KQ(6-chop), QTs(2) - 8

    Hands that may take this line and feel compelled to bluff river:
    89(3),9T(2) - 5

    Given the above, even if we discount the 16 combos that may play like this by 50% (due to the turn check), we still don't have a profitable river bet (8 value jamming, 7 potentially calling).

    If we discount his value jamming range to 8 then we need 4 bluffs in his range to bet/call river. So he would need to turn most of his 89/9T into bluffs, or also turn hands like KT into bluffs.
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    Old 03-21-2014, 08:15 AM   #25
    aaronray
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    Re: Kanu7 shoves river 25-50

    Did you have any history with this player whatsoever? I hate the call on the end. Our opponent is almost never shoving with something we beat. We only have the K-high straight. Seeing how wet the board is, there are a lot of hand possibilities that can beat us. A higher straight (AQ), Flush (A-X spades), and obvi any pocket pair like 99,TT, or (sometimes) KK.
    This would end up making our hand a pure bluff catcher, seeing how Villian is never shoving on the end with a lone Qx. For me, this is a fairly long mental process that ends up being a sick Hero fold.

    Last edited by aaronray; 03-21-2014 at 08:21 AM.
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