This is something that seems to be continually coming up in the girah thread here. I didn't want to derail that thread as I didn't think it was an appropriate place to discuss this, but I did want to get other opinions on the general view of it.

My view on it is that I am positive a lot of guys are doing it, and I don't think it should be particularly a big deal. There aren't that many other ways for online players to make money without moving out of the country. Certainly I think misrepresenting oneself by playing an unknown account is closer to wrong than to right, but I can see potentially that the necessary ends may justify the means in some people's eyes.

Thoughts?

plz delete thread

I view it the same way as I view cancer patients that illegally smoke marijuana in order to get some relief. Obv not quite as drastic but u get the point. I'm only posting this bc I think a thread like this is better off with some positive viewpoints but I think a thread like this in general isn't a good idea and is pretty unprofessional...from a post black friday professional poker players standpoint.

Best analogy I have heard regarding VPN.

As long as you aren't using someone else's account (playing history), I could care less. Just realize that if caught, there is a 100% chance that you roll will be seized. Also, it's pretty easy for a site to figure out if you are on a VPN.

Lock this up

Apologies if this has been asked before. Could you direct me to where it has been discussed?

A thread like this isn't a good idea and is pretty unprofessional because it's clearly going on but something people don't want to talk about ?

I'm not even asking in order to determine if I should do it, I just want to know what the general consensus is regarding how bad we as a group think it is because it seems to be continually brought up in the Girah thread.

Don't play that role, u knew what this thread would be. Ppl do it bc they are forced to to make a living, do u object to ppl making a living? If not I really don't see the point of this thread. Ppl from other countries can sit around and point out the moral complications with something like this and I really don't care, to them I say quit poker and go get a day job doing whatever ur qualified to do, and then in 8-12 months come back with ur opinion. Until that ppl should stfu and let anything but the most blatant cases of MAing be and realize ppl have to work. Is it ideal or optimal in forms or fairness and etiquette, no, but do u really expect it to be given the circumstances? I despise ur post for what it is which is either....
1) some lazy attempt to gather info about something u want to partake in.
2) some righteous post to crucify those who are doing what u aren't for whatever reason u aren't.
3) some post used to gain opinions on a matter u are considering but ate either unsure of the moral implications or unsure how to do it which fit with #1.

Despite any of those I know u have been around long enough and are connected enouh to just stfu and figure it out thru ppl u know. If ur trying to shed light on some new scandal by calling out ppl who are just trying to make a living w/o hurting anyone then ur a real POS imo, not saying ur doing this but if u are then u are. Or u just want to stop blatant MAing then fine, I'm with u but why now under this context and not before when it was still rampantly going on and how do u expect to stop it? The whole issue seems really ridiculous to bring up now when almost no one wanted to openly talk about it pre black friday.

Sorry if any typos, on my phone.

I can see why you would come to any of those conclusions. All of them do seem reasonable, yet none of them are actually why I started it. Your post makes a lot of sense to me and I'd ask any mod that sees this to please close the thread.

I am not in the business of outing anyone nor am I looking for information in order to find out how to do it myself. The only issue I thought was relevant was how frequently this issue has been brought up in the girah thread that I thought I would like to get some other views on it.

Honestly, our views are the same, and I don't find much fault in anyone that does it even though yes it may be against the TOS. I honestly was looking for a response like yours which basically tells me everything I need to know, so thank you.

And mods plz close this thread.

I would say good for u for coming to the right conclusion(wrt having some respect for ur fellow players)...however i just don't understand the self-serving nature of ur OP or how even u could benefit from the thread. I hope it is not only closed but deleted and I hope u understand why it needs to be that way. Ur pure curiosity serves absolutely no importance to anyone, however peoples ability to make a living serves an importance to a lot of players stuck in the worst possible situation. Let's hope this whole discussion is deleted and means nothing overall.

I havent done it but I dont think there is anything wrong with it. As someone said to me recently "its the wild wild west again"

Hey man you've said your piece, and said it in a way that I have already completely understood it once. No need to stick it in a little deeper. I requested twice that the thread be deleted.

So are you selling vpn accounts now as well as coaching?

Whatabout using an entirely new account? Esp thinking the former US sites. (Eurosites usually have alot skins so diff there obvs).

Ive basically no problems with VPN as long as its on the same accounts (on the sites with one account/network rule).


But I believe there should be a discussion / spotlight on it if people takes the liberty of VPNing with undercover accounts and/or sharing accounts..

well, it was the wild west in some eyes when various people took the decision to MA on US friendly sites, but that was of course scorned upon

If it costs HSNL'ers money, its terrible, if it makes them money, its perfectly acceptable.

yup...and we all know by now how ethical so many HS players are... they just rather no one discusses their dirty laundry and are afraid threads like this show up in Google searches... great way to say F*&^ integrity of teh game and screw all the TOS and rules, as long we are HS players and make money...

Mad respect for you Christian, but really? even though it is against the rules? does the end justify the means? break any rule, just because we don't like it or its inconvenient for us?

not that I want to get involved in this discussion, but this is silly logic, some rules are obviously wrong to break and some obviously ok

.

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Every time i start reading analogies to justify something, i´m usually ready to puke.

Not here. Nice one!

Okay look. I've had time to sleep since I made the OP and have spent additional time thinking about it this morning.

I want to say this last thing then I will not make another post in here unless I am directly questioned about something that REQUIRES an answer.

The entire reason the rule against multi-accounting was created has to do with people like Justin Bonomo, Sorel Mizzi, Brian Townsend who purposefully played on the same website in the same player pool under different accounts which allowed them unfair informational advantages against their opponents who assumed they were randoms.

People like Lurped and Rekrul who made me think I am 4 tabling Lurped when in actuality Rekrul is playing. This is clearly cheating and against the rules.

Americans using a VPN to play on a site they have never played before against players who have no original reads against them are being lumped into the same category as players like Townsend, Mizzi, and Rekrul in what is clearly an unfair manner due to the basic definition of what they are doing as "multi-accounting" while it's clearly not the same.

I originally hadn't realized how implicit and clear this should have been to me prior to creating this thread, and for that reason I apologize to anyone who this thread has caused any undue harm by my creating it.

"One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws" -Martin Luther King Jr.

it seems like a lot of players have changed their stance on this post-BF. Saying things like it's very reasonable given the legal situation in the US. I wonder how many players thought it was wrong pre-BF and quickly changed there minds?

This is sort of off topic, but a thought that I've had recently. Say hypothetically that Cereus was the only reliable network post-BF for US citizens. How many players would have stood by their morals and quit playing poker before playing on UB?

To me it seems that all of the moral grey areas in poker are subject to the given circumstances...