A) I've answered this before other than the probability thing
B) I would pay every single time because I believe if you make a bet wityh no cancellation provisions you can't just call a bet off because of foreseeable changes
C) As I've explained multiple times there being a valid point or two for an argument doesn't mean it's a correct argument nor that you have to doggedly pursue your self interest in making it even if you know it's wrong and not the honorable thing to do

Also stop going off on diatribes about ZJ-nobody knows what you're talking about, ZJ made it seem that you've been impossible to get a hold of, and you come across as a person willing to offer bets and then unwilling to actually work through them. Doesn't help that it seems that you're using what seems to be a miscommunication mainly from your end as a pretense for claiming honor is dead in poker so you don't have to pay up.

The sports analogies don't work because they involve a single event or a fixed time frame. Politics is a better example. This would be like Viffer betting on which party gains control of both branches of congress first, then claiming the bet is void when Hurricane Sandy rolls around. Scumbag gonna scumbag.

You are unreal. You know I wanted to have the bet finished before the WPT that starts on Thursday, and you chose the past two weeks to completely ignore me. What part of this is twisting the facts in any way?

Backroom street hustling tactics get so easily exposed on the internet in this day and age. Not to say that it still doesn't work, since online players are often easy hustles, but it just comes across as so transparent and obvious online.

Ya my NFL analogy was bad. Posted it heat of the moment without thinking it through properly.

I like yours tho :thumbup:

Viffer, as we've already discussed, you asked me what I wanted for payouts, and I said the proportional payouts. That was months ago, and since then no new agreement has been made. I believe I am entitled to keep the payouts this way if I want.

Also, the last time judges were discussed you offered to have David Williams, Tom Dwan, and Billy Baxter be the judges. I agreed, and since then no new agreement has been made.

I wanted to finish the bet in October. This WPT is the last chance we have to finish this bet for months as I will be travelling until the end of February. I have been constantly available, but that won't be the case any more.

As such, I have one last offer for a compromise. I believe I have conceded FAR more than I have received in terms of compromises, and this one is no exception. Quite frankly, if you don't accept this, I'm going into super hard ball mode and I will no longer consider this bet to have any good faith involved. If you say yes, you'll get what you want and the bet will be finished soon.

--------------------------------

The offer:

1) We do winner take all 150k payout with the loser paying any arbitrator expenses (if there are any).

2) You must escrow at least 50k with David Williams, Shaun Deeb, myself, or one of my many friends coming into town to play the 100k on Sunday. I'll have cash in Vegas by Monday at the latest and will be willing to do the same if you want.

3) I get to pick the dates. I will pick two days, and they will both be within 7 days of the WPT ending (Dec 11th). Since this is only a 7 day window, you must be available during the 2 days I choose. We'll set aside a few hours in the afternoon on each day. If there are any days you cannot make, say so now.

4) We stick with the poker player judges - David Williams, Tom Dwan, and Billy Baxter.

If one of those three are unavailable, we will pick a poker player alternate.

If two of those three are unavailable, we will also pick a professional alternate.

If all three are unavailable, we will pick 2 poker player alternates, and 1 professional alternate.

Alternates will be picked as follows:

For Poker player alternates:

A) You may choose anyone from my previously provided long list of names that is available on the dates I choose.

OR

B) You provide me a list of three names that both David Williams and Shaun Deeb agree to be intelligent, honorable, and reasonable professional poker players. They must also not be biased by knowing you much more, liking you much more, or having previously talked to you about the bet or anything pertaining to it. Out of those three, I will pick one. It's on you to make sure they are available.

For professional alternates:

You will provide me a list of three professional arbitrators/mediators available on the dates I will have already chosen in Las Vegas that both David Williams and Shaun Deeb agree appear to be legitimate professionals with acceptable resumes for this bet. Same rules about biases apply, and if you provide multiple names that work for the same firm, they will count as only one.

If you fail to provide me an acceptable list or name from my list, I get to pick any alternate I choose from the list I previously wrote in this thread. This will not go well for you, so don't let that happen.

For reference, here is the list I provided earlier:
THIS OFFER EXPIRES IN 24 HOURS.

we can post what ever, it takes me longer then 7 days to read and understand your whole post,

I will use any the arbitrators we agreed to and alternate with the other three that we mutually agreed too.

It was always winner takes all, so useing that as a bargaining tool is absurd.

I dont work around your schedule so you can forget the rest of your stipulations, but we can def agree on dates, im pretty flexible. Just have Dw schedule it. So niether one of us stuborn people has a thing to do with it. If and when we agree on dates im willing to pay a tenk fine for not showing or some thing if you agree to it, im def not wasting time.

The only disagreement we had was on the bet, now that we agree lets get this done.
im guessing baxter is always in vegas, dw can contact him. dw here, and we can pleade with tom over the phone. we can do it all over phone, or skype with those three.

Sorry the world doesnt revolve around you, and i sure as hell dont march to your drum.

Post, we will get the arbitrators, and set dates, you have to remeber they have to be available so all your time restraints are unreasonable.

we agreed to jave deeb arbitrate any thing, not you!!! so your threats of unfair or not in good faith are self serving. you are being unreasonable.

I don't live in Vegas and need to book a flight and make plans. If we don't have a deal, I'll be leaving on the 11th.

After you've dicked me around for 2 months, I'm not going to spend extra days away from family on good faith that you will all the sudden be reasonable.

Guess we'll have to settle the bet in March.

Just in case anyone is foolish enough to think I'm the one being unreasonable, I want to point out the following:

Viffer and I are disagreeing on the judges / payouts. I offered to have Shaun Deeb / David Williams arbitrate on these points. Despite the fact that Viffer himself picked these two people, Viffer declined to have them decide. He offered no alternative way to solve this disagreement and demands I just concede both points.

Our chat logs will clearly show I'm in the right, and he knows it. Actually, I'll probably post them at some point if we can't figure things out and he won't come out looking good at all.

Just in case the schedule is your real sticking point, how about Sat the 14th and Sunday the 15th? Weekend after WPT.

weekends are not an option for me. the monday and tuesday are fine.

Ive dicked you around, i scheduled the arbitrators was about to pay them, you cried that it was to much money, so we had to start fresh, i had some thing come up where i was unreachable for 2 weeks, ask dw!!!

please explain where i have been unwilling to do any thing?

Since your in vegas and at pano alot why dont you stop by my house and talk in person?

lol what a chit show

What was the extent of the remit for the arbitrators of the original bet?

why not let him just pick Tom and other reputable people who bet on Tom? I think that will turn out well for him

cmon dan. sometimes its just better to say nothing

This never happened. The only arbitrator names you ever gave me were 5 people that all worked for the same firm that weren't even available and you never spoke to them.

In fact I was the one talking to arbitrators because you failed to give me a list like you said you would. When I was about ready to start booking appointments, you were the one that told me to stop. You told me David Williams was actively working on it and said we needed someone neutral to do it. I believed this to be true for about 10 days, but when I talked to Dave he said this never happened. Then you said your assistant was on it (who is not at all neutral), which I believed for weeks, and turns out was a complete lie as you were unable to give me a single name she talked to.

???? I live in Denver. I haven't been in Vegas since WSOP.

I have nothing to prove to any of you, this is exactly why a bet from three years ago cant be valid. This is exactly why you should be an arbitrator, we see how unbiased you are.

escrow the money, we will have our arbitrator set things up by the terms we have discussed its plain and simple and in black and white. He can schedule things. and we go.

Ill let dw do it also.

Im not going to fight the mob. try to out forum fight you!

Anyone with half a brain sees whats going on here. You cant win and your doing what ever you can to get out, you try to lower the bet, then tell me i have to be available for any period of time and then you will pick a day randomly. Yes justin things arent happening in good faith, but its not from me.

Let me know when and if you want to move forward, schedule it threw dw and my assistant, ive spent to much energy on this bs.

Just pick any dates in march, and we settle then?

vif's last post pretty much is asking to drop the drama and imho ZJ just do it

FWIW, having an arbitrator settle the differences is what I proposed and Viffer declined.

I'm certainly willing to let DW interpret our chats and make a ruling based on them.

lol lucky guy

But you dont have any probalem letting justin who has vested interest decide your fate? Shows how rational you are. Only people who stick up for you here are people with vested interest in this. Ariel, ansky, justin, deldar, They are protecting there investment i understand, but dont insult me doing it.


Ariel is so unbiased he says no matter what he would always pay, trying to reinforce how bad it is not to pay, he would of gained alot of credability with me if he would of said 95%. I think the real number is around 40 percent but hey he says 100 and i think we all know thats bull ****. He knows he could and would argue either side of this to suit his best interest, its human nature. The only thing they can do is go after my integrity. Great defense.
JUstin is such a good arbitrator he gives people 24 hours to make a choice. Ill bet 5k and give dw a copy of my skype log with you, and we let him decide whos been unreasonable and whos slowing down things since you pointing finger at me? Just a simople yes or no will do

March is fine, to settle things pick dates!

I can show dw the skype log any time, just let me know.

No im not posting skype log for the trolls to pick apart.

Yes. Just say booked to be clear.