Limon is a classic TAG. I mean there might be a picture of him under TAG in the dictionary. He plays few hands but attempts to win every hand he plays and is completely fearless at these stakes. THIS IS A VERY ACTIVE DEEP 10-20NL GAME W/ MANY 3 BETS, LIMP RE-RAISES AND THE LIKE.

Im sure he views me as stupid lagtard because I play and raise about 1% more hands than him (lol, Im sure youll read this).

#1. 10-20nl 250bb effective
2 tight limpers, I limp button w/ Q9, sb folds, Limon makes it 120 in bb, everyone calls.

Flop Q J 8, Limon checks (which is very peculiar). 2 tight players check, I elect to check.

Turn 6 Limon checks, one of the tight limpers makes a gutless $200 bet, I make it $650, and now Limon makes it $1800. Gutless player folds and I, I, I, CALL (this is classic Limon if he had any hand or picked up a draw on the turn).

River 7 Limon says quietly, "wow" and then says "all in", I tell him he made a great bet, he says "how could you possibly know that?", me?


#2. I should post the results to hand 1 because it might effect this hand but this hand is about 4 hours later. 300 bb effective

Again there are limps, I limp button w/ 55, Limon makes it 120 out of bb. 2 callers (including me).

Flop A T 5. everyone checks to me, I bet $350, Limon flats (peculiar), everyone folds.

turn J Limon checks , I check

river J, Limon leads $1000, I make It $2500, He shoves. I say, "this is a cold deck". He says, "How can you possibly know this is a cold deck?" ME?

lol these are some weird hands. don't know enough about limon to make a guess in hand 1 but i'd fold #2

#1 fold, he has AA KK
#2 he has AJ or thinks ur bluffing and rebluffing, maybe Ks.....id call

id definitely call 2. id likely fold 1.

you only really lose to AJ/some strange slowplay in hand 2, in fact it's just hard to picture you losing ever really against mr. aggro TAG as u described him

in hand 1 his table talk makes me think he might have 86. also a few weird str8s on the end, it just seems like a somewhat suicidal bluff spot where u can have a lot of nut hands. but can you ? i mean, it seems possible he has like AKo which he was giving up with and saw the turn action and decided '**** this guy, he isnt checking flop here huge and he looks to be making a value/showdown/isolation raise, im gonna stick my stack in, if he calls me with Q9, props to him'. so yea, im calling both, one because he thinks you're weak cause of betsizing + your line and 2 because it's nearly impossible for him to have the nuts

cool hands

Hand #1: Obv fold turn.

Hand #2: bet turn, as played call river. Although I think river decision is close and I would only expect to be good maybe 1/3 of the time.

1. I think betting the flop in position is a lot better. In addition to maybe winning the $500 in the middle, you get to tax draws and better define everyone else's range. Given your limp/call on the button pre you can easily have something that this flop nailed- including T9. Because of this, the likelihood of you getting c/r'd light (less than 2 pair) is pretty miniscule with these stacks. Almost all hands (draws or made hands) that want to continue are just going to call and then check most turns to you. This gives you the free card option, more value when you hit, etc. Lastly, it would be a nightmare to let AK (a likely pre-flop hand) come along for a nice free T on the turn...

As played, I like your raise on the turn, but then just fold to the 3-bet without a strong read. You will only be able to call a shove if the river is a T...

2. Gross spot. Why did you check the turn? As played, fold .


Note: my analysis is highly predicated on the picture Limon has painted of himself over the years on 2p2 and podcasts. He just doesn't seem like one for the hero play, and in both hands shoving with worse than what you are holding given the action would fall on the border of heroic and spew. But idk, maybe it's all been one giant level/setup so that he can just shove every hand against a 2p2er and only get looked up by the stone nuts...

Gutless bets and gutless players itt

LOL.

i think not raising pre is bad in both. id fold turn in #1. he knows what hes repping and he can continue to rep it on the river so i doubt hes gonna give up. maybe thats results oriented.

i would definitely bet turn in hand 2. i would never expect him to raise and there are enough worse hands he can call with. i think u gotta fold the river because given your post, i dont think that limon ever thinks you can have a hand that folds

seriously what does he have in hand 1???? like, what?

heros hand is of course completely face up. I think in hand one he has AKcc a lot. I think it is much closer than everyone is saying. the only thing that is making me not say snap is that he said "wow", I mean who says that while bluffing?

second hand is an easy call I think.

is he repping 45cc in hand 1? do people slowplay sets on flops like these when deep? is that what he is repping?

I cant figure it out...

based only on his posts here i would snapfold both, maybe telling him "too rich for my blood."

I think hand one is at least a set or flopped straight. if he's so TAG he doesn't slowplay less then that and why would he pop turn with less then a set against a wide range of calls that might include straight?

hand 2 i think theres a lot of 1010 and aj maybe even jacks?? that is check-call on flop because of 3 spades. he seems to be trapping a lot and wants you to bet his hand for him imo. limp-calling pre-flop narrow ur range a lot too I think.

i also say that based on his trhead i read and podcast too. is image is no hero bluffing river that could have u crushed

I would pay off hand 1 before I would pay off hand 2

FOLD 1 and Call #2

ANY REASONING WHY YOUD PAY OFF 1 BEFORE 2 ARMENH?

Yeah, I'm in this camp. I'm racking my brain to come up with a way to be good in hand 2 and not coming up with anything. He's not threebetting the river for value with worse, and his pf+flop action makes it obvious that he has a hand with pretty good showdown value, so why would he be leading the river as a bluff? And what can he put hero on that will fold to a threebet but that he can't beat by just calling with whatever it is that he has? He'd need to be turning something like AK no spade into a bluff to get a low spade to fold and then just spazzing out when raised. Even if he had gotten to the river in this manner with such a hand, turning it into a bluff for one bet doesn't necessarily seem better than just trying to show it down or perhaps bluff-catching with it.

I find it much more likely that he's decided to play AA this way than to run some sort of hugely convoluted bluff. Also, KQs has a royal which is another hand that could have potentially been slowplayed on the flop.

You guys obv haven't played much with Abe. Fold both (the turn in hand 1) and it isn't close; I could give a **** what the actual results are, calling either is not going to turn a profit unless he thinks you're scared money.

And Armen's right in that if either were close to a call, it would be hand 1. Abe is not going to basically minraise 3bet bluffshove the river in hand 2 when our raising range includes all types of boats, and no he obv isn't value raising worse.

Hand 1 is the really interesting one. I tend to agree with everyone here that folding the turn is probably the best way to go, but as played the only hand I can put him on that makes any sort of sense AKcc given the action.

Hand 2 is just a snap fold because I cant expect him 3betting the river with any hands worse then 5's full.

I just expect us to have the best hand more often in the first scenario than the second.

Also, maybe I'm a nit but I really don't see purpose in raising river in hand 2 unless you're trying to induce a spazz. Can't come up with worse hand that'll pay off your river raise.

call the tight limpers bet on turn in hand 1

Don't raise river in hand 2. I can't come up with a single worst hand that takes this line and calls a river raise.

pretty much this for hand 2....hand 1 as most have said prob fold turn, especially if you dont want to be put in this awkward spots vs limon, right?

OP (and other Commerce regs)- isn't 6xing from the bb after limpers in this game a recipe for playing a bloated pot oop against multiple opponents? What is his/a spewless Tag's range for doing this? I imagine it's narrow enough to better frame this discussion...

6x is a solid raise, it might have even been 7x. I know at the time I thought he may have been trying to pick the pot up.