Jennifer Tilly is an insult to female poker players everywhere... I'd go as far as to say poker players in general. Jesus that hand made no sense..

Lol, nice ninja-mod-ing skills, jmurder!

I like Jennifer Tilly, and think she improved a lot in the aftermath of this tragic hand. It has to suck sooo hard to have a hand like this on tv.

Yeah, I was thinking that too. I have to imagine that must have been real motivation to improve. And she does have something I don't have-- a WSOP bracelet ffs. I can't speak for how good she is now, but obv that hand was terrrrible.

Dear CAisaiah5710:

It would be great if you were to win since it would make your dog very happy. (That's the nice thing about dogs - they'll lick your face and love you no matter what!) Also, if you win you can laugh in the face of that man who wished you ovarian cancer. (I need to work on my understanding of advanced math - especially probability and statistics.)

Former DJ

Well, this is a tad harsh.
Everyone goes through stages of their poker development. We were all terribad at some point

Also, at some point we have to realize and admit though, that even though people in general may not have the most respect for a specific player's game, in this case Tilly, one cannot ignore the fact that her win did it's part in boosting poker awareness and women's poker due to the fact that she was a known actress prior to poker.

ooohhhh I missed it.
Get'em JM

Never met her but she seems awesome...also have a feeling she's a lot better at poker than people think. I listened to an interview with about six months ago on 2+2 and while she didn't talk much about poker strategy she seemed extremely smart and motivated--and yes, she talked about how annoying it is that people still come up to her in person and ask her about that hand, lol.

Technically speaking that was just modding...when I used to sit around 4L & edit people's posts within 5 mins (usually to fix things they did against the rules), so there was no trace of it...that was ninja-modding.

& when I used to sit around for a few hours during work at my old job adding an applicable youtube link or picture to every omg post within 5 mins...

I figured I can't take away all your fun with responding to trolls, but I can't leave the troll post up, so seemed like a good compromise.

Venice usually beats me to it, but occasionally I get 1 1st

Also, as for the math, I'm just going to do it really roughly, but last year, if the men & women in the tournament are assumed to be of equal skill, there was a 23.4% chance a woman would make the final table (& a 95% chance a woman would make the top 100).

Let me calculate the odds that I was just insulted...

...nope I need a bigger calculator

That clip never gets old.

Ivey's face is hilarious for sure.

I think that Tiffany Williamson's call of Greg Raymer moving all in was actually worse though.

Back story; at some point earlier Shawn Sheikhan had reraised Tiffany Williamson all in after she raised in early position. TW then took literally over a half hour to fold KJs. And then had the audacity to ask if she could she Shawn's hand after a clock was called and time ran out on her.

WSOP 2005, blinds might have been 15k/30k

UTG raises (maybe 90K or so)
UTG+1 Tiffany re-raises with AJ (???)
MP1 Fossilman re-re-raises all in with an entire table to act behind him.
Lots of folds, including UTG who was raising with 77 (likely the bottom of his range).

Tiffany asks how much it is. Raymer has his chips all in neat stacks and says "1.3 million EXACTLY" (or whatever the number was). TW probably has about 2 million or so.

Tiffany: "Count it!" not please count it or may I have a count, or just taking the defending world champs word for the clearly lined up stacks in front of him.

Immediately Shawn Sheikhan calls a clock. TW protests that Fossilman hasn't even counted his chips yet. Shawn replies "he told you what he has lady." As much as a jerk that SS is, I thought he was spot on in doing this to her.

Raymer ignores all this, counts all his chips again, and of course, it's exactly the same number he gave her before.

Finally after some banter, TW calls, Raymer has KK and it holds up.

I really don't think that Raymer's range here is wider than AA or KK; I'm not thinking he makes this move with 2 raises in front and everyone left to act with AK or QQ even. He wasn't short stacked at the time, and the raise from UTG was from a fairly solid player.

Even if you debate that we should include AK QQ JJ, Tiffanys AJ is crushed.

I got a lot of flack for criticizing the play of Tiffany Williamson in this event, in fact left one women's poker forum over it. But she luckboxed a lot and took enormous amounts of time to make decisions. Her play was bad and her poker etiquette was worse.

What really irritated me was that I felt that ESPN had taken great pains to include coverage of legitimate female pros like Barbara Enright, Jennifer Harmon, et al. Finally there was only one woman to focus on, and she was doing things like this.

But all I heard from some quarters of the women's community was how the media was picking on poor Tiffany, how guys were calling the clock on her just because she was a woman. Actually most players were trying to be chivalrous and not call the clock on her even though she was playing at the speed of the Human Rain Delay

Didn't mean to derail the thread, but sadly the last woman who got close (15th) didn't represent us particularly well. Actually the other Tiffany wasn't particularly ethical either. Maybe we should just stay away from sending women with that name to the event.

On another note, most folks know that Barbara Enright was the only woman to make the final table at the WSOP ME (1995), and that Annie Duke came in 10th in 2000. But I rarely hear anyone mention Susie Isaacs 10th place finish (1998). She's not the flashiest or most aggressive player out there, but I wish she would at least be given her props more for that finish.

Shauna

i'm happily married, but thanks for the concern. and if you'd like to bet on what the outcome of a poll would be if i put up a picture of her alongside a picture of you, i'd be happy to.

the point of my post, before it was edited by a ridiculously over-zealous mod, was really only to point out a statistical property. and to express confusion over the use of the term "foot in mouth" for something that as of now is still true.

edit: and don't worry crazy mods, i won't bother posting in this forum again. i'll allow this happy little world of delusion to exist peacefully....

Darn, we were all learning so much from your posts...
I'm very happy for you and your hotter-than-a-random-internet-poster wife. I'm not surprised in the least that you chose to discuss her looks to prove her worth, rather than any other quality.

Nothing says "over-zealous" and "crazy" like a warning

I can't imagine what you must think of the mods who actually infracted you. Enjoy the rest of the forums on 2+2 and your "hot" wife

WP!

Shauna, I was mortified over Tiffany Williamson's play + behavior in that event as well. Her tank with KJ was such a joke. The best part about it is that I think she was seriously considering calling. No offense to the tourney players but I guess that's why they call them "donkaments." Anyone has a chance.

lololololoolol
I guess we better get used to our delusional reality girls.

I think this thread underestimates how much attention a woman reaching the november 9 will get. (especially if she's has a good story line)
Like it or not, most of the world series publicity happens during that time period, and the story lines are set then. Actually winning would be a cherry on top publicity-wise.

ive said many times that a woman winning the main event would be the best thing that could ever happen to poker. unfortunately you cant choose your winner and if past wsop champs are any indication she will be a horribad luckbox. actually if i could choose i would prefer she be the female gold/moneymaker/yang type. more gold i would say, shell end up on every talk show from conan to the view and being quirky, engaging well spoken will be a big plus.

LIVE BOEREE, I BET MY BANKROLL ON IT! lol

I think the value of a woman making the final table alone would easily be worth more than first place to her. If she is a full-time player and wants to do poker/endorsements I think the value is likely well over 25 million over the course of her life (not even counting future potential earnings from the sponsored tourneys she plays).

Also, one time this year pls pls pls?

Sadly I think that this is true only if she is young and hot. An old battleaxe like me would likely to be doing well to to celebrity rehab shows.

How does everyone here feel about the double standard. It's still true in way too many respects that men are judged on talent and women on looks.

Shauna

This is a first - replying to my own post.

In this week's "Pokercast" (Episode 165), Mike Johnson and Adam Schwartz discuss betting lines for a woman finishing the Main Event in one of the top 40 places as well as a woman making the November Nine final table. (Pinnacle, a web site that accepts bets, is setting betting lines for various prop bets in this year's WSOP. The discussion of betting lines for these prop bets begins around the 48 minute mark in the Pokercast. The discussion of betting lines for prop bets involving women begins around the 53:40 mark of the Pokercast.)

I'm (definitely!) confused on how betting lines work as Mike and Adam are throwing numbers around (like +140 and -1,500) and complaining about "the vig". The impression I get from their discussion is that taking a bet on a woman to go deep in this year's Main Event is a bad bet not because they're betting against a woman, but because they think Pinnacle has set a bad (or incorrect) line. (I'll have to go back and relisten to the Pokercast, but I'm really confused about that -1,500 number and what that number actually means.) I thought the line for a woman to make the November Nine final table should be somewhere in the neighborhood of +2,000 to +2,500 but apparently that number is way too high, so I'm clearly confused as to how betting lines work and what the plus and minus numbers actually mean. (I have enough trouble trying to figure out something simple - like pot odds.)

Former DJ

I almost went there but refrained.
I think a "mom" or "grandmother" type could also make big waves.

No opinion on the subject, but I wouldn't count on Pinny setting an incorrect line.

Yeah, but the worst-played hand in the ME was arguably that same Greatest Player Ivey mucking his winning flush. We all do dum s- stuff - when we start out. Or in the middle or near the end. One bad TV moment does not a totality of ability make.

That said, I think she and Phil mostly play cash and maybe she's really pretty bad, but we have no way of knowing. I know she did win some trny or other recently, Phil Tweeted about it.