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Old 07-05-2011, 05:04 PM   #26
AAmaz0n
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

This was very poor behaviour on the part of the two sites, and I think that Rosa definitely is owed an apology. Sadly, I wouldn't hold my breath on that happening.

It is true that the media can be unfair at times to everyone, but my observation over the years is that when it comes to trans people the reporting is almost always unfair, unbalanced, and inaccurate. The only time you seen trans folks in any kind of story, it is in some form of exploitation, usually sensationalizing the gender/sexuality of the subject.

Sadly, we are a very small and extremely poorly understood minority that the media just can't or refuses to understand and we lack a large well funded media watchdog group to keep the shoddy writing at bay. That makes us an easy target for tabloid style headlines, sophomoric jokes, and ridiculous stereotyping that would draw lawsuits from other minority communities

I am appreciative of those who have complained to the sites about this injustice. It seems like it's going to take many many more efforts like that to get any kind of respect shown to trans people.

Shauna

PS. if anyone knows how to contact Rosa, I'd love to get in touch with her. It's not often I find another girl like me playing poker; I only know of one other. Thanks.

Last edited by AAmaz0n; 07-05-2011 at 05:16 PM. Reason: add request for contact
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Old 07-05-2011, 05:26 PM   #27
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

Seriously....who gives a damn about who or "what" someone is?

Poker is the most democratic activity one can do - it doesn't matter where you're from, how old or young you are, male or female, uneducated or learned, penis, no penis, somewhere in-between....it doesn't matter..

All that matters is what you do at the table with your cards and chips.

I don't care who you are as long as you don't smell.
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Old 07-05-2011, 05:32 PM   #28
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

Quote:
Originally Posted by kerr View Post
Anyone who's been in the poker scene for 5 minutes should know Rosa Lee and her story.
I may not be the most connected player in the poker scene, but ... looking at watch ... it's been a LOT longer than five minutes and I'd not heard of her before this ladies event.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zappa View Post
... I do not believe they intended in any away to disrespect this person. I feel it was an honest mistake and not intended in the way that it unfortunately appeared. Therefore, the less said about the matter the better. IMHO. Respectfully.
So, then, to indicate to you my respect, should I address you as a dbag?
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Old 07-05-2011, 10:37 PM   #29
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

I've played with Rosa Lee on the East Coast at Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun Ladies Events including the 2010 NAPT Mohegan Sun Ladies Event in which she final tabled. She even received some publicity last year as a transgendered woman playing the WSOP - Ladies event for not only being transgendered, but for being a published author as well. So its not like she is a complete unknown as shes been on the circuit for a few years and has even cashed in open events. FWIW at Mohegan, I corrected a friend of mine in the poker media who referred to her as a "tranny" in a post.

Her book is entitled The Letter F:: The process of civilly changing sex.

Not sure if anyone realized this but she also was the subject of a 2+2 thread here:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...w-tits-696681/

If you read her bio you will see that she was a math and physics major in college which may explain her success at the poker table

Dollars to donuts she identifies herself as a female and she dresses and accessorizes well
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Old 07-06-2011, 01:29 AM   #30
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Brecher View Post
I may not be the most connected player in the poker scene, but ... looking at watch ... it's been a LOT longer than five minutes and I'd not heard of her before this ladies event.
See below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by irongirl01 View Post
Not sure if anyone realized this but she also was the subject of a 2+2 thread here:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...w-tits-696681/
Everyone in the poker media should be aware of the bigger threads on 2p2, and this above was such a thread.
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Old 07-06-2011, 04:18 AM   #31
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

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Originally Posted by Cotton Hill View Post
I think it's the core issues.

Somewhere along the line it was decided that if men could not be legally prohibited from entering women's events that mocking and abusing them was the best thing to do.

Every time a man is eliminated there are cheers and the men who do enter are constantly being berated, verbally abused, and belittled both at the event and in the media coverage.

It's in this spirit of "acceptable" abuse and ridicule that Klaneski got caught up in because of her unique situation.

There shouldn't be acceptable abuse of anyone because of whatever their gender happens to be, by birth or surgery.
very well said - on the topic in hand, extremely crude and mean. do yourself a favour and boycott the site

Last edited by S.K; 07-06-2011 at 04:27 AM.
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Old 07-06-2011, 04:35 PM   #32
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

Quote:
Originally Posted by AAmaz0n View Post
Sadly, we are a very small and extremely poorly understood minority that the media just can't or refuses to understand and we lack a large well funded media watchdog group to keep the shoddy writing at bay. That makes us an easy target for tabloid style headlines, sophomoric jokes, and ridiculous stereotyping that would draw lawsuits from other minority communities

I am appreciative of those who have complained to the sites about this injustice. It seems like it's going to take many many more efforts like that to get any kind of respect shown to trans people.
It's nice to hear this, because those who run the site have tried to argue that my protests are drawing more ridicule on the transgendered community. They think that we should just let this injustice pass quietly now that they've deleted the photos without comment.

It is my belief that harm was done to more people than just Rosa (though she was obviously harmed the most, and the most directly). What bothers me is that the readers of their websites who saw those jokes got the implication that it was okay to make fun of people who are different. If a photo is quietly deleted later, most readers will never, ever know.

This is why I demand that they publicly apologize in the same blogs where the offending jokes appeared. They need to explain to their readers that what they did wasn't right, and why.

I feel very strongly about this.
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Old 07-06-2011, 06:28 PM   #33
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

I had the pleasure of playing at the same table as Rosa at one of the Borg's $175 /re-entry tourneys a year or so ago. When she got busted out after a while, the only comments made by the all male group at the table were in regard to her playing style. It was one of the proudest moments of my poker playing days.

I'm not sharing any furhter info on her style as I plan on keeping it to myself for next time we meet across the felt.

AW
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Old 07-07-2011, 12:24 AM   #34
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

Quote:
Originally Posted by kerr View Post
See below:

[link to 2+2 thread full of immature, nasty, ignorant reactions omitted.]

Everyone in the poker media should be aware of the bigger threads on 2p2, and this above was such a thread.
Whew! I'm glad then I'm not in the poker media, and I'm really sorry I clicked through that link.
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Old 07-07-2011, 06:39 PM   #35
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Brecher View Post
So, then, to indicate to you my respect, should I address you as a dbag?
You can't be serious. Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BJ Nemeth View Post
It is my belief that harm was done...

This is why I demand that they publicly apologize...

I feel very strongly about this.
I understand the way you feel but disagree with your opinion.

Also, I doubt either site will provide you with the relief you demand.
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Old 07-07-2011, 06:41 PM   #36
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

Quote:
Originally Posted by irongirl01 View Post
Dollars to donuts she identifies herself as a female and she dresses and accessorizes well
Will simply note that Dunkin Donuts at Foxwoods charges more than $1 for a donut.

Makes me a bit sad that this saying is soon going to have no meaning.
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:25 PM   #37
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

Obviously, I don't think anyone should be ridiculed on the basis of sex, gender, orientation, race, or whatever. The fact that this kind of **** still goes on sometimes SHOULD be offensive to EVERYONE.

I've said before that it won't actually be until the average GUYS start complaining about blatantly misanthropic, sexist, gay-bashing, and other offensive hate speech that it will actually start to go away. As long as there are guys who think that other guys find that speech funny or cool in any way, it will persist. I also think this type of speech is relatively rare, but guys who think women are exaggerating about some of the stuff we (we meaning women) have heard at the poker tables need to pull their heads out of their asses. Just because it doesn't happen often doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Calling another player a "donk" or a "retard" is completely different from using sexual slurs or speech.

On the specific manner, as long as there are women's only events (like there are seniors only events, or casino employee events), then of course a transgendered woman should be welcomed to participate.
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Old 07-08-2011, 02:58 PM   #38
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

Quote:
Originally Posted by pezbaby View Post
Except Rosa has clearly had a breast augmentation. How can anyone think that she is a guy in drag?
I guess you have never read Michael Konik's book about the guy who had breast implants or you are unaware that non-surgical fake breasts are available.

I did not know of Rosa Lee before this thread and honestly, had I seen the picture out of context, I would have thought it a photoshop. Sorry if that offends but it is my honest opinion.

But I found nothing caption worthy of the photo and found nothing wrong with Rosa wearing pearls and having cleavage, but I grew up in an era when pearls were more common.

I want to say that I feel what happened to Rosa Lee was deliberate and deplorable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10 View Post
I note that we already have a thread on this subject. If you or anyone else wishes to discuss it further, feel free post your comments there. The next person that decides they need to interject further on the general subject of whether there should be a separate event for women gets infracted and a vacation from 2+2 for derailing this thread.

As for the matter at hand. Anyone who has had any experience with the media knows that the media's desire to sell papers/get web views trumps any consideration of anyone's personal feelings about being exploited in most organizations. While I feel sorry for anyone having to go through this, the real responsible parties for this happening is:

Us. All of us.

The media does this because they know they'll earn money because of it because we look. If all of us stop looking and actively punished those who publish pictures of Brad and Angelina (for example) out with their kids doing something normal, then it will stop.

I commend those who are making a point of letting organizations know certain actions are unacceptable. And I know the war won't be won overnight. However, just keep in mind that when you stop by the website of some tabloid because you heard they had some juicy gossip about a celebrity, the friends of that celebrity as just as appalled by the behavior as you are now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FemmeNoir View Post
Did it ever occur to anyone that maybe Rosa plays these women's events instead of tables full of men precisely because of the kinds of rude behaviors like Wicked Chops? That she wants to avoid the rudeness about her gender? That other women maybe have been subjected to rude behavior and crude comments and simply want to play an event with other women?

Let's call a spade a spade here: these men who play the women's events do so because they think it's a "soft" field. Which is the ultimate slap in the face to ALL women poker players. Any other so-called "feminist" reasoning is bull****. It is not "feminist" to patronize women by playing Daddy and telling us what we should and shouldn't do, and taking it upon yourselves to try to ruin an event many women love. IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS AS MEN. BUTT OUT. ITS UP TO WOMEN TO DETERMINE WHETHER THEY NEED OR SHOULD HAVE THEIR OWN EVENT.

Where is the outcry over the Seniors event? And the casino employees event, which also exclude certain people?

Those trying to ruin the women's event are not in any way, shape or form trying to act in women's best interests, but their own. It's malicious and mean-spirited, and this morning I read on twitter that the women's event is "farcical." How much more insulting can the poker community be toward women?

PS. And let's not forget about the extremely rude behavior by Men Nguyen toward Vanessa Selbst recently. You want a series where there is no women's event? Then the poker community needs to do exactly what it did in both of these cases by speaking out against the bad behavior, so women can play without that kind of harassment at a table full of men. That's the one encouraging thing I have seen in both of these cases. (Other players at the tables, including Michael Mizrachi, spoke up when Nguyen was out of line. Kudos to them.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ITT666 View Post
Right, but then what is the best way for you, as a woman, and for all women to go about proving those men wrong?

By feeling insulted, and bitching and moaning about it on the internet, or by playing your A game in the tournament and outplaying those men, proving to them, that you are better then they thought you were.

Actually forget about proving it to them, prove it to yourself. Go out there, play your best game, and prove to yourself, that the ladies event isn't a soft field.

Also, as an aside, I wouldn't take it so personally anyway, the majority of events at the WSOP are, in fact, pretty soft over all, filled with a lot of dead money. It's not an insult to women to assume that the majority of the entries in the ladies event are dead money, just as it isn't an insult to men to assume that the majority of entries in the Main Event are dead money.

It's mostly just the facts, regardless of gender.

As for the women in the ladies event that aren't dead money, they should be delighted if the men entering, just naturally assume they are weaker players. Any edge you can get in poker is crucial to your win rate. Being under estimated by your opponents is an edge, often times it's a huge edge.

Personally I know, if my opponents think I am weak, and dead money at the table, I am more then happy to let them go on thinking that. Why let them know the truth, and in doing so, give them more accurate info, and lose my edge?





I really don't want to ignite a whole new argument in saying this, ... although I probably will... but to be honest, women do not and have not experienced redicule and harassment on the same level that Trans individuals have. Over the past few years, I have spent a lot of time and had many close relationships with TS's, and in my personal experience, I would say, sure they may feel like a women, but it's not quite so simple as just saying, they feel like a women, so they are a women. It's not that simple for them as individuals, or for society. And saying that their treatment by society, as well as their inner battles, trials and tribulations are the same as a womans, is just not true.
As you can see by the part I bolded in the mod's post, she threatened to ban the next person who spoke about the subject of women's only tournaments. Was it:

a) a short ban for the posters I quoted above
b) the mod decided not to institute a ban; or,
c) no ban was instituted because the posters were in favor of such tournaments.

Hopefully, it was a or b and not c.

Last edited by ChaosReigns; 07-08-2011 at 03:02 PM. Reason: added thoughts.
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Old 07-08-2011, 04:32 PM   #39
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

My apologies for thinking Venice10 is a woman. I made a stupid assumption based on this being a women's poker area that the moderator would be female. Other posts seem to indicate Venice is a male.
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Old 07-10-2011, 02:00 AM   #40
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosReigns View Post
I guess you have never read Michael Konik's book about the guy who had breast implants or you are unaware that non-surgical fake breasts are available.
really? This is the argument you chose? And it wasn't non-surgical.
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Old 07-11-2011, 03:29 PM   #41
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

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really? This is the argument you chose? And it wasn't non-surgical.
I am sorry for anwering what seems, now, to have been a rhetorical question. But you did ask and I gave a honest anwer. If you did not want an answer or did, but didn't like my answer, that is your problem and not mine.
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Old 07-12-2011, 12:15 PM   #42
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

Having looked at the pictures more closely, I'm almost positive I saw this woman last year at the Venetian (she stands out), and while it's fairly obvious she's transgender, it's also very obvious that she is a she (hair, dress).

It's a contentious issue (biological gender vs. assumed gender/identity), but it's very clear that this individual feels and identifies as female - no one would undergo the surgical and lifestyle changes otherwise, to say nothing of the scrutiny and ridicule she has surely undergone. I wouldn't have any problem playing a women's only event with her at my table.

It's not like poker is a physical event. This issue gets a lot more complex when you are talking about physical sports, but for poker this seems like a no-brainer. It's not like men are going to rush out and get sex reassignment surgery just to gain a competitive advantage in women's only poker events, because there is no definitive competitive advantage in poker to being male or female. Individuals may make assumptions of others play based on gender (just like they do on age or clothing style), and people may use their image to their advantage, but everyone has the opportunity to do so, ergo there is no advantage.
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Old 07-12-2011, 12:38 PM   #43
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

As I have said, I agree what Wicked Chops did was wrong, but if all someone had to go on was the photo, they would not definitely know the person was transgender. As I pointed out, there has been at least one male who underwent breast augmentation and was not doing so to become the opposite sex.
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Old 07-12-2011, 01:20 PM   #44
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosReigns View Post
As I have said, I agree what Wicked Chops did was wrong, but if all someone had to go on was the photo, they would not definitely know the person was transgender. As I pointed out, there has been at least one male who underwent breast augmentation and was not doing so to become the opposite sex.
OMG, give it up already as some kind of evidence that a guy would get a BA because, for all intents and purposes, the only people that get boob jobs are women or are transsexuals that wish to be identified as women.

Seriously, how dense can someone be to wonder if she is a guy in drag? It's not complicated.
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Old 07-20-2011, 02:43 PM   #45
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

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Originally Posted by ChaosReigns View Post
As I have said, I agree what Wicked Chops did was wrong, but if all someone had to go on was the photo, they would not definitely know the person was transgender. As I pointed out, there has been at least one male who underwent breast augmentation and was not doing so to become the opposite sex.
So, there's tens of thousands of people that have gotten male-to-female gender reassignment surgery, and "at least one male" that you heard got breast augmentation without intending to reassign his gender. And your argument is that the logical conclusion is to assume it's this one particular guy, who's randomly decided to play in a women's poker tournament? Really?
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Old 07-25-2011, 07:54 PM   #46
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cotton Hill View Post
Somewhere along the line it was decided that if men could not be legally prohibited from entering women's events that mocking and abusing them was the best thing to do.

Every time a man is eliminated there are cheers and the men who do enter are constantly being berated, verbally abused, and belittled both at the event and in the media coverage.

It's in this spirit of "acceptable" abuse and ridicule that Klaneski got caught up in because of her unique situation.

There shouldn't be acceptable abuse of anyone because of whatever their gender happens to be, by birth or surgery.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pezbaby
Of course it's acceptable to abuse and ridicule people who choose to mock something, which is exactly what men playing in these events is. They are being blatantly rude, so guess what? I will return the favor. Using that as any kind of leverage in an argument that it's okay to discriminate against a trans woman is just really unfair. They are totally unrelated.
First I want to say that the following isnt leverage in an argument against transgendered people. I agree with the majority here on that.

But I think Cotton Hill has a point and I disagree with pezbaby about it being acceptable to abuse and ridicule people even though I do not support men playing in ladies tournaments and even though it is a non-issue now [because in future years men wont be playing anymore.] I came here because I think pezbaby probably has the majority opinion of women on this issue and I feel strongly about it.

At the WSOP every year everyone cheers for the men that bust out and it is basically disrespectful and unsportsmanlike. Do the men "deserve" to be disrespected? -- that's another issue. My feeling is that people who try to make the men uncomfortable are on a similar level to the men who make women feel uncomfortable by playing the ladies event. It just doesn't feel that way because it is socially acceptable if everyone else is doing it. But it doesn't make it right. At the very least women can "be the better man" and not have to bring themselves down to the lowest common denominator by booing people out when someone ruins the party.

Your argument for why its okay to abuse men playing the tournament is essentially "an eye for an eye." Although most feel this is justified/okay, it's not. The fact is people are being intentionally hurtful. Whether a guy "had it coming" or not is kind of irrelevant. Also note that at the time the men playing were in the letter of the law which is why some of this stuff makes me uneasy. Again I do not support these male players but what people did, especially to the guy who made the final table, is more or less trying to exact vigilante justice through bullying, and it can be very hurtful. For example, someone murders someone and does 25 years in prison. He gets out of prison and there are picket lines around his house every day and some even do minor things like breaking his windows, but this is "justified" because the neighborhood doesn't want a murderer in their community. Maybe I'm in the minority but its not right to put yourself above the law.

Some of that **** is very hard to shake off. If, just like a highschool senior with low self-esteem being picked on, if Jon Epstein killed himself after winning the ladies event would everyone feel better? Is that what he has to do in order to make it clear to everyone in poker that bullying is more than just a joke? Doesn't matter if he had it coming btw. And that proposition isn't actually that far off the mark: men who enter the ladies tournament are actually more likely than the average wsop entrant to be broke/degenerate/hate themselves, for obvious reasons.

Anyways, it kind of makes me sick that this behavior was tolerated and encouraged for so long. Thank God there was one woman at the final table who said to Jon amidst the circus.. something like: "dont worry about what they are saying honey, just play your game as best you can." In my mind that person is a beautiful person and a good role-model for how women should act during the tournament, and notice how much better she comes off. "Kill them with kindness" as they say. In summary, stop bullying losers.


Edit: I forgot to mention how this is correlated to the transgender issue. Basically there was a long and deeply ingrained culture in the history of the Ladies event involving abusing men. This spilled over into abusing this transgendered woman too. Obviously the latter is wrong, but my point is the former is wrong too, and so Cotton Hill's point stands that maybe without this tradition of abuse, Rosa would have never been ridiculed. No one likes to agree with that "former" point because no one really wanted men to play the Ladies tournament except for maybe the men playing, and they feel that if men aren't ridiculed then more would play. But the point is still true.

Last edited by Alex Wice; 07-25-2011 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 07-27-2011, 01:19 AM   #47
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

Quote:
Originally Posted by FemmeNoir View Post
Did it ever occur to anyone that maybe Rosa plays these women's events instead of tables full of men precisely because of the kinds of rude behaviors like Wicked Chops? That she wants to avoid the rudeness about her gender? That other women maybe have been subjected to rude behavior and crude comments and simply want to play an event with other women?
Rosa is a fixture on the East Coast Circuit.
I have played with her both at Borgata and Foxwoods.

Most recently in January at the Borgata Winter Open. It was the first time we actually conversed admitting that we had seen each other a bunch in the past few years.

In the few times I have been at the same table with her I have not witnessed men making rude or inappropriate comments.

Actually, the table we were at together in January was a pretty interesting situation because a man on my right was using two large, metal nuts that were glued together to kind of form a figure 8 as his card protector. I made a semi suggestive comment about it that sent the entire table into a laughing frenzy. We started discussing the correlation between "nuts" and how it relates to poker and "other things" and you can imagine how the conversation took on a life of its own. Rosa was right there with the men, as was I, going back and forth with the borderline comments that were all in good taste. It was a fun time. I was very happy to see this.

A couple of the guys made the initiative to shake her hand when she busted, which is rare in and of itself these days.
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Old 07-27-2011, 01:52 PM   #48
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

I just skimmed the thread but I'll add my two cents anyway.

1) Why are we outraged at these websites? All they did was point out the low-class actions of a select few guys who dressed as women so they could play in an exclusive tournament. Just because ONE of those guys dresses up as a woman outside of poker, it's offensive? Seriously folks, every single one of you has more important **** going on in your life to worry about

2) Why the outpouring of sympathy for this woman? She CHOOSES a lifestyle that is garaunteed to skew people's perceptions of her, EVERY SINGLE TIME. Now we're shocked, and horrified that some photographer/reporter could make this kind of mistake? Jesus.

If you want to be transgendered, that's fine. Just understand that when you go out, dressed to be noticed, people are going to have a hard time processing cleavage AND an adam's apple. So, the next time you want to strut your huge calf muscles around in a pair of stillettos, just understand that there IS a significant portion of the population that thinks it's ridiculous.

If you want to be transgendered and avoid that kind of ****, then put on a baggy tshirt and a hat.

If you want to strut your stuff becuase you think you're hot sh-t and you want to show who you are on the inside, that's fine too. But just remember, not everyone has to agree with you.
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Old 07-27-2011, 01:57 PM   #49
NoLimitNinjaBri
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

And for what it's worth, I don't think that men playing in ladies-only tournaments is necessarily a bad thing.

If you play just because you want to play a tournament and want to prove that you technically can't be excluded, then fine, play, but you're a douchebag.

But I was in a charity card room one time, and they had organized a ladies event to benefit a breast-cancer related charity. There were two guys who were locals and regulars in the room. They dressed in drag, and showed up to play. They were allowed in, and were very courteous and played along with all of the ribbing and jokes that came with being dressed in drag.

one of them cashed in the tournament, took back his buy-in, left a small tip for the dealer, and then gave the rest to the event organizer for the charity.

Pretty classy move, I thought.
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Old 07-27-2011, 05:23 PM   #50
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Re: Speaking Out for Our Transgender Friends

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoLimitNinjaBri View Post
Just because ONE of those guys dresses up as a woman outside of poker, it's offensive? Seriously folks, every single one of you has more important **** going on in your life to worry about

2) Why the outpouring of sympathy for this woman? She CHOOSES a lifestyle that is garaunteed to skew people's perceptions of her, EVERY SINGLE TIME. Now we're shocked, and horrified that some photographer/reporter could make this kind of mistake? Jesus.
She is transgendered, not a cross-dresser. It's not a lifestyle, and theoretically, it's a choice to live as a woman, but it's not a choice if your brain and your genitals aren't in tandem.

So yeah, some of us are offended by the bigger picture here - not one person's specific reaction to another. And FFS, the bigger picture is not men playing in ladies events!
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