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Old 01-14-2014, 02:44 AM   #1001
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

Ok, thanks.

After I was given the warning I was really astounded and a little disgusted to say the least. I didn't see what I said that was wrong or an insult. I didn't even accuse him of being homophobic, just that his language could come across as mindless homophobia.

The reassurance means a lot.
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Old 01-14-2014, 02:49 AM   #1002
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You were completely in the right

Lol at him for feeling victimized
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Old 01-14-2014, 09:59 PM   #1003
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

Yeah, you did nothing wrong, it's mindless knee jerk anti political correctness to bash someone who points out when someone else is being insulting to any group, intentional or otherwise.
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Old 01-15-2014, 06:45 PM   #1004
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

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Originally Posted by SuqAta8 View Post
You were completely in the right

Lol at him for feeling victimized
Yeah, he came off with quite the little rant after my post too, and he hasn't been around since. I think he might actually have been suspended for the petty comeback at me but his initial comments, which were the only thing I took exception to, are still sitting on the site untouched

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Yeah, you did nothing wrong, it's mindless knee jerk anti political correctness to bash someone who points out when someone else is being insulting to any group, intentional or otherwise.
Again, thanks for the reassurance guys, I was pretty fed up when I initially posted. Now I am glad I posted what I posted both here and on the other site.
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Old 01-16-2014, 01:26 AM   #1005
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

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Originally Posted by bhoylegend View Post
Ok, thanks.

After I was given the warning I was really astounded and a little disgusted to say the least. I didn't see what I said that was wrong or an insult. I didn't even accuse him of being homophobic, just that his language could come across as mindless homophobia.

The reassurance means a lot.
This is an important issue that I've been pondering quite a bit lately, that of "language".

I use the term "gay" quite often in reference to things that have absolutely nothing to do with the definition of the word, I might call an experience at the store "gay" because I waited in line for 20mins.

However, in my life I take the issue of gay-marriage, rights, very seriously. (by the way, I am a hetero male) I am very outspoken about bigotry, racism or sexism. I believe that the teachings which go on inside most Church's on the subject of homosexuality and gay-marriage constitute hate speech, and spread the venom of bigotry. The word "abomination" is offensive to myself, when used to describe any person or group, however this word carries with it an ideology, it is not simply a word in our language but a belief system.

I agree that usage of words can be offensive, or hurtful but they can also be used to turn what was once a derogatory term meant to inflict pain, into something of little to no meaning. At one time, not so long ago the word "gay" meant to have a joyous time, today it almost never is used in that context.

Now, I don't mean to diminish your feelings in the experience that you describe, but it sounded as if you, at first questioned if you were wrong to take immediate offense. perhaps you were? you applied some attributes to the word (weak?) which maybe were not intended by the author. I only wonder what is the more important fight, words, or ideologies/beliefs, for myself the latter is all I'm concerned with, and I hope I am not overlooking something..
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Old 01-16-2014, 02:58 AM   #1006
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

I don't think I have expressed any doubt over what he was saying, at any point, in any of my posts.

To me, he was clearly using the word gay in describing a negative experience, much as you admit doing in your post. Unless you were saying that you enjoy standing in line for 20 minutes.

My confusion/annoyance was related to the fact that I had just been given a warning at this site, my post deleted, and actually the threat of another warning, if I didn't toe the line and stop whining about it. My post, I am lead to believe was not constructive, and was insulting to the other person. I was literally stunned when I received the PM from the head moderator saying I was being given a warning.

I think the moderator, and actually yourself too, don't appreciate that using the word in the way that poster did, and the way you say you do, is actually offensive to a lot of people. Why is the word gay being used to describe negative things?

The other reason for my post, other than just to release a little steam, was to find out if in other cultures this use of the word was being accepted by people or if the general attitude is to just shrug it off and say nothing, because, as you say, there are bigger fights.

So I think you have definitely misunderstood my posts, I know what the guy meant, and while I wouldn't necessarily think he is homophobic based on his post, I think I was right to challenge him, and it was wrong that I be given a warning for my reply, have it removed, while the original comment remains untouched.

I was even moved to e-mail Stars about it, and, it is something to do with them. They've yet to respond to me more than two days later though. I'll be following that up when I get home from work many hours from now.
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Old 01-16-2014, 03:58 PM   #1007
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

What I meant by doubt, was you asking if you had overreacted, or let it affect you more than you ought to.. and I'm in no way implying that you did.

Yes, I do use the word to describe annoying experiences, however it is just that, the experience not a person or group of people, (and never in the company of someone that might not know me, and take offense) I would not use this language on public forums.

I do agree that the forum mod who warned you, and deleted your response is way out of line. Your response was valid.
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Old 01-16-2014, 11:11 PM   #1008
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

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What I meant by doubt, was you asking if you had overreacted, or let it affect you more than you ought to.. and I'm in no way implying that you did.

Yes, I do use the word to describe annoying experiences, however it is just that, the experience not a person or group of people, (and never in the company of someone that might not know me, and take offense) I would not use this language on public forums.

I do agree that the forum mod who warned you, and deleted your response is way out of line. Your response was valid.
Whether you use it around people who might take offense or not, doesn't mean that using it isn't homophobic.

If you use gay to mean a negative experience, you are associating being gay with being negative.

(I'm not saying that you are homophobic, just that using it is, whether you mean it to be or not.)
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Old 01-17-2014, 02:42 PM   #1009
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This is somewhat the point i am making, words could mean something negative, or mean nothing at all. I am neither homophobic or a bigot, i should be judged by the character in action and not words i use. How we all treat others is what ought to be important, human solidarity means nothing if everyone is not included.
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Old 01-17-2014, 05:03 PM   #1010
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

Except that language has meaning. We use it to communicate with each other. Without it there would be chaos.

Yes, actions are important, but frankly if you don't understand how using "gay" to mean something stupid or negative is a problem when it is also the word used to describe a minority group that is the target of a great deal of bigotry, hatred, and violence, then I think you might just be too attached to having the world as you want it in this spot, rather than as it really is.

I mean you should just admit that you personally want to continue to word the use "gay" in a manner that might offend others and, in this particular instance, people should just ignore that and not be offended by it because, even though they might not know you and certainly won't know of your pro-LGBTQA actions, they shouldn't shouldn't assume that you are actually negative against gays just because you use the word that describes them in a negative and belittling way.
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Old 01-18-2014, 02:05 AM   #1011
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

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Originally Posted by KidKash View Post
This is somewhat the point i am making, words could mean something negative, or mean nothing at all. I am neither homophobic or a bigot, i should be judged by the character in action and not words i use. How we all treat others is what ought to be important, human solidarity means nothing if everyone is not included.
First of all, speaking a word is an action. The idea that you shouldn't be judged by the words you use is horribly wrong.

Second, it doesn't matter what you actually mean when you say "gay". Unless you explain to literally every person you say it around "but I don't mean that in the homosexual sense", people are going to think there's a possibility you have something against gays. You don't just get to choose what a word means and expect everyone to know, that's not how language works.

And even if you do explain to everyone that you aren't trying to be offensive against gays, it still makes people uncomfortable anyway. Telling a gay person they shouldn't feel uncomfortable when you use the word "gay" to mean "stupid" or "annoying" or whatever makes you, perhaps not a bigot, but a gigantic dick.

None of your arguments are valid. They are simply a natural human resistance against changing something that has become a habit. I know because I used to use it a lot myself when I was a teenager. But if you want to stop being a dick and alienating people, you have to work on eliminating it from your vocabulary. Then you can look back and realize how ridiculous you sound defending it.

Last edited by DarkMagus; 01-18-2014 at 02:11 AM.
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Old 01-18-2014, 06:34 AM   #1012
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

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Yes, I do use the word to describe annoying experiences, however it is just that, the experience not a person or group of people, (and never in the company of someone that might not know me, and take offense) I would not use this language on public forums.
I don't think you're a bad person, but I do think you're mistaken here. If you're able to avoid using gay to mean negative things in certain situations, why can't you do so in all situations? Even with you not intending it, your language is being hurtful, as you already recognize in some settings.
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Old 01-18-2014, 08:48 PM   #1013
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

So, an amusing news story in the UK today. Just for the record, I am uber laid back about all things gay,so, I hope no-one takes offence.

Oh and damn, now our controlling the weather secret is out!!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-25793358
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Old 01-18-2014, 11:30 PM   #1014
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

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First of all, speaking a word is an action. The idea that you shouldn't be judged by the words you use is horribly wrong.

Second, it doesn't matter what you actually mean when you say "gay". Unless you explain to literally every person you say it around "but I don't mean that in the homosexual sense", people are going to think there's a possibility you have something against gays. You don't just get to choose what a word means and expect everyone to know, that's not how language works.

And even if you do explain to everyone that you aren't trying to be offensive against gays, it still makes people uncomfortable anyway. Telling a gay person they shouldn't feel uncomfortable when you use the word "gay" to mean "stupid" or "annoying" or whatever makes you, perhaps not a bigot, but a gigantic dick.

None of your arguments are valid. They are simply a natural human resistance against changing something that has become a habit. I know because I used to use it a lot myself when I was a teenager. But if you want to stop being a dick and alienating people, you have to work on eliminating it from your vocabulary. Then you can look back and realize how ridiculous you sound defending it.
If words are so important, maybe read them as they form a sentence, and you will find out that I have never, nor plan to use this word in public circles or around people who could be hurt/offended. I tried to make a distinction within a parallel about how I use the word "Gay" without harm, and the person OP described using it on a public forum.. Somehow this has been lost in translation among a few of you that claim to read words so intently.
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Old 01-18-2014, 11:34 PM   #1015
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

As it stands, the only people that I have been a "dick" towards and alienated are a few pastors/reverends/church elders in my local area that refuse to allow openly gay couples among their congregation. I believe that as long as religious institutions receive tax relief from this nation (in the form of relief from having to pay any) they ought to be ridiculed and rightly accused of hate speech for demeaning, condemning, or out casting anyone for their nature.

The topic is interesting to me personally because I recognize how words seep into our everyday life and at times are used out of context, intended or not, and at times causes hurt. I had been wondering if by changing our language we could make a change in our society for the better. However behind the words are beliefs, or ideologies, which I now think is the precondition for the bigotry, the racism and the sexism.

It is my belief that the culprit of this hurt is not the words chosen, but the social climate in which they are used, I am not offended if someone refers to a long wait in line for their morning coffee as very "Hetero" and the reason is that I am fortunate enough to be among a group that has not been condemned for what is my inborn nature. Any part of my characteristics could be described negatively to describe anything, with no effect at all on myself, and it is my hope that someday soon this condition will exist for everyone.
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Old 01-20-2014, 01:28 AM   #1016
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

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If words are so important, maybe read them as they form a sentence, and you will find out that I have never, nor plan to use this word in public circles or around people who could be hurt/offended. I tried to make a distinction within a parallel about how I use the word "Gay" without harm, and the person OP described using it on a public forum.. Somehow this has been lost in translation among a few of you that claim to read words so intently.
The problem is, people are often reluctant to speak up. Maybe they are closeted and don't want to bring up the issue, or maybe they are just generally non-confrontational. They may even have lied to you at some point and said they don't mind. You really have no way of knowing. Trust me, I used to believe the exact same things you're saying, ages ago, and I now know how ridiculous it is.

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The topic is interesting to me personally because I recognize how words seep into our everyday life and at times are used out of context, intended or not, and at times causes hurt. I had been wondering if by changing our language we could make a change in our society for the better. However behind the words are beliefs, or ideologies, which I now think is the precondition for the bigotry, the racism and the sexism.

It is my belief that the culprit of this hurt is not the words chosen, but the social climate in which they are used, I am not offended if someone refers to a long wait in line for their morning coffee as very "Hetero" and the reason is that I am fortunate enough to be among a group that has not been condemned for what is my inborn nature. Any part of my characteristics could be described negatively to describe anything, with no effect at all on myself, and it is my hope that someday soon this condition will exist for everyone.
Ok, so you agree that it can be hurtful to people. Then why is it so important to continue having this usage of the word in your vocabulary? Do you really think it's possible to always keep it 100% confined to situations where you're 100% sure people know what you mean and won't be hurt or annoyed? I don't think it's possible.
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Old 01-21-2014, 09:46 AM   #1017
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

Just to end off on my little whinge earlier in the thread.

I received a couple of email responses from someone behind the scenes at the forum I got the warning on, a few days after the email to Pokerstars.

I overlooked and gave them the benefit of the doubt when I was told that both my post and the one I complained about were removed at the same time. That was patently false, because as with this forum, when a post is edited a time stamp is left to show who made the edit and when. Along with that I had regularly checked the thread. The post I reported was edited roughly 4 days later shortly before the first email reply I received. I assume this was done so that an honest 'both posts were edited' reply could be given but why say that both replies were edited at the same time? It was either a lie or a mistruth.

And apparently my reply did constitute an insult. I checked the definition of insult again following the second email and I am still nonplussed.

As the site is affiliated to Pokerstars I had naively expected something more than being taken to task for opposing a homophobic comment.

Been feeling crap the last couple of days already so this left me a little deflated even though it's a relatively minor thing.
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Old 01-21-2014, 02:10 PM   #1018
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

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Just to end off on my little whinge earlier in the thread.

I received a couple of email responses from someone behind the scenes at the forum I got the warning on, a few days after the email to Pokerstars.

I overlooked and gave them the benefit of the doubt when I was told that both my post and the one I complained about were removed at the same time. That was patently false, because as with this forum, when a post is edited a time stamp is left to show who made the edit and when. Along with that I had regularly checked the thread. The post I reported was edited roughly 4 days later shortly before the first email reply I received. I assume this was done so that an honest 'both posts were edited' reply could be given but why say that both replies were edited at the same time? It was either a lie or a mistruth.

And apparently my reply did constitute an insult. I checked the definition of insult again following the second email and I am still nonplussed.

As the site is affiliated to Pokerstars I had naively expected something more than being taken to task for opposing a homophobic comment.

Been feeling crap the last couple of days already so this left me a little deflated even though it's a relatively minor thing.
Homophobia can exsist anywhere, shouldn't let it get you down though. Their problem with glbtq isn't your problem.

Did this happen at PokerSchoolOnline?
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Old 01-21-2014, 03:29 PM   #1019
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

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Homophobia can exsist anywhere, shouldn't let it get you down though. Their problem with glbtq isn't your problem.

Did this happen at PokerSchoolOnline?
It's not that that's got me down, just kind of adds a little kick when you are already down, nothing that I wont be over soon I am sure. Just happens from time to time.

Yeah, it was at PSO, I wasn't going to put the name out there but yeah.
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Old 01-25-2014, 02:28 AM   #1020
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

So I came out to my parents, sister, and brother-in-law today over a game of Dominos. It was in the context of, "who's that guy that posts pictures of you on facebook" -- "oh, that's my boyfriend." Everyone reacted as I expected -- they acted as if this wasn't anything. They just asked me about my bf and we kept on playing.

Later, my parents and I sat down and talked. My mom was a little upset that I kept things from her for so long, but otherwise wasn't phased by the whole gay thing. My mom had some inkling I may be gay when she first saw pics of me and my bf, but she didn't really think it and certainly never had a clue before that.

So it all went as I imagined it would, and all's good, but I don't feel great or relieved or anything. I almost feel this makes things harder than when I was hiding, which I was doing for so many years and am so good at it.
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Old 01-25-2014, 04:39 AM   #1021
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Well congratulations anyway

The only circumstance in which I can see myself coming out to my parents is introducing a long-term boyfriend. Things are slightly different for me - the difference between 'living a lie' and merely 'not being 100% forthcoming' as I introduce them to girlfriends from time to time. A large part of my consideration is that I don't need to, both from my own and their points of view; my mum and I also recently had a conversation about the possibility of my brother being gay that annoyed me somewhat, so as hopeful as I am, I think it could be quite difficult for them.

Btw, if anyone else is bisexual and reading this thread, I've found a useful way to explain it to all you other boring monosexuals. Ask them if they have a type - do you prefer skinny, tall, blond, muscular, old? Well, I prefer girls/boys (delete as appropriate). Several people appear to have had a lightbulb moment when I've told them that.
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Old 01-26-2014, 01:11 PM   #1022
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

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It's not that that's got me down, just kind of adds a little kick when you are already down, nothing that I wont be over soon I am sure. Just happens from time to time.

Yeah, it was at PSO, I wasn't going to put the name out there but yeah.
You should definitely try speaking to other mods about it, try dm-ing their twitter account and tell them what happened, they seemed concerned when I tweeted at them about it.

(I'm sure Pokerstars wouldn't be happy if they were encouraging homophobia)
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Old 01-27-2014, 07:14 AM   #1023
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Re: **Rainbow Flops: The GLBTQ Discussion Thread**

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You should definitely try speaking to other mods about it, try dm-ing their twitter account and tell them what happened, they seemed concerned when I tweeted at them about it.

(I'm sure Pokerstars wouldn't be happy if they were encouraging homophobia)
The mods there are all pretty much friends. The Super-Moderator was the one who dished out the warning, the rest all have less say than he does, so I think that it is pretty much a dead end there.

I sent a complaint in through the Pokerstars client, it was answered by PSO admin, and basically all they seem to have done is listened to what the moderator has said and kept to the same line ie. 'This was looked after at the time' which is just rampant nonsense.

I saw that they peddled the same line in reply to your tweets in their direction so I had to respond with the truth. That they edited my response to the initial post with a boatload of haste and left the one I reported untouched for four days. In all, the post was actually on the site for 15 days, having been posted on the 2nd January, a different mod posted in the thread on the 11th and made a reply to a separate post to give advice etc. but obviously didn't see a problem with the post I reported.

It's unfortunate, I think my time there is probably limited, and while it is nothing like the size of 2+2, there is a good community there that I enjoyed being a part of.

I really do appreciate you taking the issue up with them too BTW. Shows that it was not just one person. Maybe in the future they will be quicker to take action on these things and it wont require someone bringing attention to the issue and getting warned for doing so.
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Old 01-27-2014, 07:43 AM   #1024
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Keep on going higherup until someone listens to you and takes action.
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:43 PM   #1025
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Can't believe no one has posted this yet.

An NFL prospect in this year's draft (projected as a mid round pick) has come out - Missouri defensive end Michael Sam.

If he makes a roster, he'll be the first publicly acknowledged out gay man in one of the major sports.

All over ESPN today.

Obviously LGBTQ players have always been there, but now hopefully they can live openly without fear of backlash.

The next step will be for this to not even be news.
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