I agree with this completely. As someone who considers themselves bi - sexual, and has spent a lot of time in the company of trans people, I really feel you on this one. I've made similar observations and conclusions.


When I lived in the Philippines, everyone who was gay, or trans was labeled a bayot, by the society.

Bayot translates to gay.

This means if you weren't hetro norm you were considered gay.

I usually took this term offensively, and wondered why most of my ex - girlfriends there (who are mostly male to female TS,) didn't find it equally offensive.

But in some ways it might almost be better then here in the west, because then there is so much division within the LGBT community.

There, the entire LGBT community hangs out together. The L's and the G's hanging out equally with the T's, none of what you were talking about, which I do agree is a very big problem in the 1st world.



I also agree with the concept of adding even more letters to identify oneself.

Personally I like the concept of considering, some, Trans folks to be a 3rd gender. Specifically those that really do prefer to keep aspects of both maleness and femaleness co - existing in them side by side.

If we are to regard them as a 3rd gender, then personally I prefer to identify myself as the second T in LGBTT.

the second T standing for Tri - sexual, not bi - sexual. Meaning an interest in having sex with Women, Men, and TS (specifically pre - op Ladyboy style ones, that have breast and a female forum, but are still equipped with their orginal male parts down below.)

Not this. Trans gender fokes want to be treated as the gender they have transitioned to, not as a female with male parts for example. A MTF for example just wants to be treated as a female (at least that's how I feel). When I do go through with the transition I don't want to be labeled as "the tranny with the ****" I wan't to be treated as a regular girl. I will obviously still identify as trans (because thats what I am) but the point is, I just want to be treated as a woman, and not some kind of 3rd gender alien.

Though it is true they are cross-gender people who live tier live part male-part female, and cross dressers, drag queens etcc. They are still apart of the trans community, it is a much wider community than most people think. I know you are a well informed person and have been with many trans partners, I just think you're really wrong about the "3rd gender" because it is kind of offensive. I doubt any transitioned person would want to be labeled as a 3rd gender, they just want to be "normal".

I understand this is your perspective, but the idea of a third gender has historical precedent. Other societies have had individuals who didn't conform to traditional male/female roles and were considered a third gender, and this was accepted (even revered, depending on the society) within that society.

This isn't my area of expertise, but I'm generally familiar with the idea from reading about Native American "two-spirit" individuals, and I know there are and have been other cultures with a similar concept.

Also, it's important to bear in mind that cross-dressing and transgender are two different phenomenons. There's some overlap, but someone who truly meets the definition of a cross-dresser (at least from a psych perspective) is almost exclusively straight men (google "transvestic fetishism").

Sexuality and gender are more complicated than the standard boxes they are normally conceptualized as, IMO, so there's a lot of room for everyone, but there's also a lot of room for misunderstanding.

I was thinking of some way to let others know you are a "friendly" in Vegas this summer during WSOP/VDE, and I thought about wearing rainbow patches or something.



I'm gonna be repping rainbows somehow this year. (For EDC Vegas too - do other gays love EDM as much as I do?)

FWIW, I'm a bi male who has had a profile on OKCupid first as a straight male (with a second gay profile), who later changed his profile to say bi. Although the number of messages I received dropped after I changed it, the quality improved. I have had multiple boyfriends and girlfriends who were fine with it (although admittedly a good % of them are bi themselves)

I understand fully that this is how you, personally, feel, and, likely, it's how many other transgenders feel as well, but I'm not convinced all.

How would you label a person that was born a male, but chose to live as a female. Took it way beyond just cross dressing, considered themselves to be a women, dressed like one all the time, acted like one all the time, spoke like one all the time, and had breast implants, but decided to keep their penis, even though they had the financial means to get the operation to change it to a vagina, and everyone important in their life, would be totally fine with them having a vagina. Yet despite all this, they still chose to keep their penis.

On top of this, they also liked to, sometimes, be the top in sex, as well as enjoyed being sucked off.

If you're going to label such a person, it's hard to label them as a full female. I much prefer a term like ladyboy, because of the aspects of both genders they display, and choose to display. Hence, a third gender.

Many of my exes are like this, that's why I prefer to think of them, as a third gender, not as girls. I haven't asked them what they would prefer, I just always referred to them as girls, or sometimes as TS or ladyboys, when talking to them, but my guess is, some of them, would be fine with being considered a 3rd gender, they might even like the uniqueness of it.

I have asked some of them about operations, and they've all said they want tits (most of them had them already in fact,) but more then one of them, have said even if they had the financial means, they would not get a vagina, they prefer to keep their penis.

On the flip side, I have one ex in particular, that still has a penis, but doesn't have the means to get an operation, but she has no desire to be sucked, or to be the top in sex, she essentially doesn't want her penis to do what penises usually do in sex. So, more or less, she wishes to ignore the fact that that is what she is equipped with, because she feels like a full on girl, and girls don't have penises.

Another interesting note, on their Facebook profiles, some of the TS/Tg's I know choose to list their gender as girl, while others actually still list it as male, despite looking feminine in appearance in all of their pictures.

Would you label them as full on females? or possibly a 3rd gender.

I understand that you, don't want to be considered a 3rd gender, but I'd urge you to consider that, there may be subgroups within the larger group of trans individuals. Some may feel full on female, but others may actually like being 'chicks with dicks' just because it seems odd to you, doesn't mean it isn't out there.

From my experience, I'd say it is.

Then to, you have to consider the perspective of the partners of transgender people. Take me for instance, if I was looking for a girl, I'd go for a girl (and when I am, I do,) if I was looking for a guy, I'd go for a guy (and when I am, I do,) the reason why I have been so attracted to so many TS/Tg/ladyboys/whatever term you want to use, is precisely because, to me, they did have a certain allure to them, that the other two genders didn't. I did like the female body, mixed in with the male assertiveness, horniness and aggressiveness. I liked the aspects of both that they displayed. That, for me, was the attraction.

Hence why I do like to think of them as a third gender, a mix of the other two, the best (and sometimes worst,) of both worlds as it were. That's what I like, what I am attracted to.

But I understand that that's not the way you feel, but I do maintain that there are some in the trans community that do.

However, I apologize if I made you personally feel like a 3rd gender alien. And believe me, I have nothing but the utmost respect for those I consider to be 3rd gender, nothing but the utmost respect for you either.

If you tell me you are a girl, a full female, then that is what I will consider you, I give you that respect of course. My sister.

i'll be wearing my "trademark" pink burberry hat. Might wear a pink wsop sweater ocasionally as well. ^.^

Didn't wana quote the whole post.

Ok you have alot of valid points thanks for sharing. I just think that is so rare within the trans community that someone would want to be treated/labeld as a 3rd gender type. Im sure there are people out there( as you pointed out), but i imagine such a large majority of trans would feel kind of offended labeled as a third gender. And yes I consider myself a full on female and not a "third gender" type .


Id like to know what aamazon has to say on the topic because she is obviously more informed than anyone here. I know very little :P.

It's possible it's a cultural thing, to some extent, as well.

All of the 'girls' I am referring to, that I have experience with, are Filipinas and Thais, living in (surprise, surprise,) the Philippines and Thailand.

I have next to no, experience and exposure with the Trans community in the U.S. or any western culture for that matter, so it could be there are cultural differences between the Trans cultures of the west, and the Trans cultures of SE Asia.


Agree with you, that it would be interesting to hear from AAmazon on the matter.

Hi guys

oh hai dere

Hullo there, care to introduce yourself ATFC?

I am a fan. And fellow gay.

Didn't know that fan's could access internet forums. Seems pretty cool that something that spins round n round n round n round n round n round n round..... n round.... Could learn how to use a computer, must be a genius!

Einsteins of any race/shape/sexuality/spin are more than welcome here

Lol tell us something about yourself!

And hai dere.

re: 3rd gender

Ok, I'll give an opinion, but it's just that; one person's view of the gender binary. Your milage my vary, see dealer for details, void where prohibited by law.

Most folks in a lot of countries believe in a fairly strict gender binary, boys and girls, men and women. If someone alters their gender presentation, folks tend to be more comfortable if they just move right from the pink box to the blue box or vice versa without mucking around too much in the middle.

This is not true across all cultures, however. For instance, on the North American continent most indigenous native tribes had (or in some cases still have) a "Two Spirit" tradition. These dual natured people would be trained to do both men's and women's chores, dressed in the gender opposite of their birth, and could marry. Two spirits were considered special because they were able to understand both genders, and often had prominent positions within the tribe.

In India, there is a group known as Hijra, which is also a 3rd gender although they have a very weird social status. I don't know if it still exists, but in Oman there was also a variation of 3rd gender people called Xanith. And as has been pointed out, the ladyboys of Thailand are considered more third gender than female. There are actually a fair number of cultures that do accept more than two genders.

When transsexualism was first introduced by the medical community in the US, it was strictly in the context of people who needed to live in the gender opposite of their birth. In fact, if you wanted to transition, you had to prove to your therapist that you were going to fit nicely and neatly into the new pink or blue box. If you were at all gender variant or not heterosexual, often you could be denied hormones or surgery on that basis.

So in order to please their shrinks, transwomen would make sure that they held their pinky the right way, only go out in dresses or skirts, and talk about how they dreamed of finding the right man and maybe getting a job as a nurse or a schoolteacher. And from a practical standpoint, discrimination against transgender people was fairly pervasive, so "passing" was very important if they wanted any kind of day job, so appearing and acting stereotypically female was fairly standard.

Which, of course led to transwomen being hated by feminists and downright vilified by books like the Transexual Empire. But that's a story for another time.

The main point is that the gender binary was historically very much enforced on the transgender population. It's only in the last couple of decades that has changed, where folks can feel much more free to express feelings of not being a man and not really being a woman either.

Writers like Kate Bornstein started to deconstruct the gender binary in our culture; examine if it really works for everyone (or anyone!), tweak it, and play with it. Suppose someone just doesn't fit in the two boxes, or likes to be gender queer, or to switch back and forth at will? I happen to like Kate's writing; I don't think that I've ever been the same since I read Gender Outlaw back around the turn of the century.

There are a lot of folks now who just don't want to conform to some societal "norm" of what they are supposed to be like, and don't like the labels. I saw a bunch of that when I was in grad school during my own transition; a lot of questioning about what it means to be a man, a woman, a lesbian, bisexual, genderqueer, or something else entirely.

On the other hand, there are still very traditional transgender women who want to be stealth, fit in, maybe not even acknowledge that were ever different than any other female. They have a very strong feminine identity and might feel upset being identified as anything other than a woman.

My view is that we shouldn't let our own biases be the guide to how we identify someone; that all people have a right to self-identify as they please. If someone wants to be a form of third gender, that's their choice, and it's equally valid with identifying as a plain vanilla man or woman. Same with transgender/transexual people who only want to identify with their new gender, it's really up to them how they want to be known.

Interestingly enough, even though I'm a big fan of folks who are androgynous, genderqueer, and so forth, and would love to be some kind of outrageous Ziggy Stardust character, what really works for me is pretty much "girl next door." I guess that's just who I really am inside.

my thoughts, anyway.

Shauna

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/03/...lbt-community/

For those who don't click links lightly:

" ‘Family Rejection’ Number 1 Predictor Of Suicide Attempts In GLBT Community
...
Those LGBT teens and adults are eight and a half times as likely to have tried to take their own lives, compared with their peers with families that were not at all rejecting"

anyone have wsop plans yet? ill be there the whole series basically, something like May 20th-July 20th

same. I'm going to be there from may 27th or so, until august 5th or so.

Arriving May 27th or so, leaving TBD, but no earlier than the first week of July.

Will be there for the 2p2 party only. So I obviously have a lot of socializing to do in 48 hours.

Going to be there for the first couple weeks of June probably.

Anyone else going to EDC? I am pretty excited for it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0..****e=Seth_Walsh

so sad.