I just would like some general feedback/comments about my situation:

I'm 25 years old and married to a professional online poker player. When he first started two years ago, he didn't ask for a single cent and worked his way up from the lowest micro limits to NL 10 in about a year. Mornings were dedicated to theory, psychology, and posting hands on forums; afternoons and evenings were his playing hours (he did a lot of experimenting with times too). He did well, slowly crawling up to NL 25 through a combination of 6 max and zoom tables. He stayed on NL 25 for a long time, and all the rake-back he earned from breaking even went back into his bankroll.

Eventually, he was able to try NL 50, and took a shot at it about 6 months ago, but lost so much that he had to go back to NL 25. Most days on NL 25 were break even, or close to it, but he eventually encountered another long downswing that set him back to NL 10: right where he was a year ago. At the moment, he's stuck on 6 max regular and zoom tables, teetering between NL 10 and 25, and has yet to really stabilize on NL 50 like he wants to.

He has studied just about every poker article on poker strategy sites, has read handfuls of books on poker, analyzes questionable hands on a daily basis, watches professional players and takes notes and see if he would have made the same plays, and uses Hold'em Manager to help him with plays against certain players. He takes notes on players, has good bankroll management, and has only tilted once (quite the anomaly; he is usually a stone-cold logical player). I am still worried about our financial situation: My husband doesn't have a job outside of poker.

We have been going through some rough times. I have been trying to pay back my $25,000 in student loan debt, and his family has other debts from before we got married. We are currently living with his dad, who works 12 hour night shifts and gets paid minimum wage (Which, in the country I live in, is nowhere near enough to be able to survive on for one person, let alone three. Plus almost all his money goes to his own expenses). I haven't been successful in finding a job in this country (the unemployment rate is near 50% for young adults), and I have continued to work online for a company I worked for in my home country for as many hours as I'm approved for, which is almost never even 30. I pay our bills, buy groceries, and cover other expenses that come up. I've only been asked for money from my husband for poker once, for a promotion on the poker website to earn a bigger percentage with a deposit for a certain amount of time. It's still in his bankroll; I haven't asked for it back since he needs to get up to at least NL 25 again, but I know that I will get it back when his bankroll is a bit higher.

I know that all poker players have upswings and downswings. It just seems like my husband hardly ever has upswings. I would have thought that by this point in his career, he would have been bringing in at least something to contribute to our family financially. I know that this job has an aspect of luck involved in it, but skill is a huge part as well, and he has so much knowledge from all that he puts into this. We barely scrape by, and it's hard for me to handle that his dedication and skill have brought us nothing so far for these past two years.

I've had a few breakdowns because I'm not so sure where we will be in a year, five years, or further. He can't/won't get a normal 8-5 job; poker is what he has dedicated himself to (did I also mention the unemployment rate?). I want to support his career, but after 2 years he's still on NL 10. I guess I'm just wondering about other experiences in players/partners of players, timelines, and financial difficulties. Any advice is welcomed, too.

Thanks for reading.

First of all I want to start by saying I'm sorry you're in a what seems like a genuinely difficult situation. It sounds like you have a lot of profound stress in your life right now.

That being said...a few things from your post stuck out. You are certainly right that poker players, even the most elite, have to deal with variance and swings. That's just the nature of the game.

However, after reading your post several times to make sure, it appears even when your husband was winning he still wasn't really making a living or contributing to the household bills from playing poker. It certainly sounds like he's put many hours not just playing but also studying various aspects of the game. He may "want to" stabilize" at 50, but the best players will put ego aside and lower the stakes as needed to stay solvent.

At the risk of sounding harsh, it would seem from a purely financial POV playing is more of an intense hobby than a living for your husband.

I'm a teacher by profession. I had my best year last year with almost $10k profit playing low and micro MTT's part-time. I was still acutely aware that didn't mean I was making a living from playing poker, but it was very nice to have the extra money on a teacher's salary (and kindergarten teachers in Germany are paid absolute ****, even with an advanced degree).

It's been a few years now and I don't think your husband's dedication to mastering the game is in question. But he's not making a living from it. You need to pay bills, you need to eat. Someone has to bring in some cold, hard cash and he's had a few years now to be financially solvent from poker. It sounds like your family is in dire straits and teetering on the brink of financial disaster.

He needs to closely examine his situation and how it affects not just him but you and perhaps realize it might be time to be a working stiff again and fit poker in when he can to try to supplement that. You mentioned the employment situation in your country is pretty dismal though. Apart from that, based on your description it is clear that he's not making a living from poker and is, at best, a hard-working player who breaks even financially.

I wish you the best of luck in resolving your situation.

Great post , it seems that maybe your man is just not a good poker player? Just like so many outer young Boys who dreamed to become a pro football player , tennis player etc etc but they were not among the lucky few who made it to the big league and they moved on

There's no easy way to say this, so I will be blunt: You're in a bad situation in many ways. The reality is very few people can make a consistent living playing poker. Even if they develop the skill, they fail in other ways. At best, they get tired of the grind and pursue another path. At worst, they fall victim to other addictions like drugs. There's an old joke in the US about poker players.

Question: What is the difference between a poker player and a large pizza?
Answer: A large pizza can feed a family of 4.

I know a number of poker players making a living. The vast majority don't have a family.

Therefore, your husband is unlikely to succeed long term, even if he was good. At the moment, he isn't good at what he does. I didn't beat 25nl until I started putting what I learned up against hand histories on 2+2. He'll see lots of difficult situations, comment on them and get insulted about how little he understood about the situation. He'll either get discouraged or use it as a learning opportunity.

Unfortunately, he's addicted to poker too. Everyone who plays regularly has some level of addiction. I know I do. I've turned the addiction to wanting to win and I do in live poker at 2/5. I don't depend on it though. I have a job and know that I don't have the skills to be able to make more money than I make right now. The reality is that he needs to acknowledge that he needs a job and poker at best is going to be a supplement to his earnings.

Your chances of success are low in convincing him of this. I say this as a male moderator of this forum (long story) who understands what males feel in this situation. I hope I'm wrong, but believe I'm right. You have some choices in your future where the decision isn't what is best, but rather what is least bad in your future.

Which country is that? And what is the husband's level of education and prior job experience, if any?
Maybe we can suggest some kind of part time job, that will provide some minimum guaranteed income.

Brutal...I don't think I can even justify playing live 2-5 and 5-10 and still not having my full time job, a part time job and my g/f playing full time and working part time let alone grinding between 10NL and 25NL :/ best of luck Ma'am

very tough situation.

your husband is doing you and your family a disservice by still playing poker full time and not getting another job to support himself/family.

i would assume he will spend the next however many years still chasing the dream of playing for a living though, which will eventually end at some point

gl with all of this.

Honestly I feel for your and your familys situation.

I think as things are there is actually very little chance of your husband actually succeeding in becoming a poker pro that can sustain himself/not even talking a family from what he does. The reasons are simple:

Bankroll - if his bankroll is constantly on the verge of having to climb down a stake it's probably affecting his overall attitude/mental state which is particularly bad for a poker player.

2 years without getting anywhere? I know it sounds like a harsh judgement but maybe he is doing something wrong / not learning the right things / or just is not meant to be a winning player?
To be honest I'd expect everyone who puts in the learning hours / game reviews and solid brm and table selection etc etc over a period that long to be a solid NL50reg at least (even though it's probably the most reg infested stake out there atm). And of course knowing that he hasn't gotten anywhere during that time will affect his mental state even further. Then again idk how many tables/hours your husband plays? Maybe it's just a volume thing...

Last but not least, living on the verge of bankrupcy is not really a great spot for one to be in when you actually want to draw out your own potential to the fullest.

My advice for you and your husband: Lay off the poker for a while, even in a country where work is hard to find it's still going to be possible to find something that is more profitable then being break-even after 2 years. And if not there is always jobs elsewhere...If your husband is capable of the learning process one needs to go through to become a poker pro then he should be more then qualified to go through the learning process to do almost any job there is out there that doesn't require some bs "paperwork". Save up some money over a while and if you are in a situation where you can sustain yourself over at least 6 months without having to worry about money on a daily basis let him try again....
I honestly doubt that after 2 years he isn't capable of beating these stakes, but given the situation you are in currently it's probably impossible for him to do it right now.

Hopethathelps and good luck for the future

semi-grunch.

You are in a horrible situation that is not going to get better unless your husband realizes what's going on. And that is unlikely since it's entirely possible that he just needs to get a little better, or he just has to wait for variance to even out. There is almost no chance that a non-poker player is going to convince him that he's not "on the right path"

I see three ways out.

1) Encourage his poker playing. Pick up some overtime, or sell some jewelry to get some extra money, and hire a poker coach. A good one. Have the coach review his hand histories and stats, and then serve up a helping of tough love. If he is actually a bad player, then a good player will be able to illustrate it using your husband's actual data. Once confronted with his own weak play, he'll be alot more open to the idea of getting a job and putting poker on the back burner.

2) Get your father to play the villain. Have him act like he got an hours cut, or a rent increase, or something. Create a situation where your husband HAS to start contributing to the household. He'll either get a job, or start withdrawing poker money. If he chooses the latter, and he's good, problem solved. If he's not good, then he'll just go broke and be forced to get a job anyway. Also, since this is a ruse, have your father give YOU the extra money he gets from your husband. Then hide it. You'll need it for #3

3) LEAVE. Oh my friggen god honey....just leave. He's 25 years old, doesn't earn a living, and lives with you and your parents. Doesn't sound like he has a real plan to accumulate any kind of wealth in this lifetime. What kind of life could you offer a child? Ditch this guy and find someone else.

Hi, Ekansa...I understand why you'd be frustrated with the situation. Here's my two cents:

Your husband does not have a career, he has a very time-consuming hobby that is counter-productive to your family. A career implies that his labor can support him and his family, this is obviously not the case.
I think the best thing you can do is sit down with him and have an honest discussion of your family's financial situation. It is clear that there is not enough income being generated to support the family; he is not contributing and is making the situation worse by using his time non-productively.
I understand that the employment situation is sour where you are...but there has to be something that he can do to generate money. He could go door-to-door asking people if they need any household chores done, find scrap materials to sell to recyclers, or any number of things that would generate more money than he is doing right now.


I think you need to sit down with him and come up with a plan to generate income for the family that will have little risk, as opposed to poker, which is risky for even the best players.

I think that he needs to withdraw his bankroll and use it to support the family in this situation, because right now he's using it to play games, which is not a rational or reasonable thing to do given your situation.

Man, this is why I haven't had a girlfriend in years. And to think girls actually hook up with guys like this, crazy...

OP, post some of his hand histories so we can look at how he plays the game. That may give us some idea of if he's on a downswing or if he's simply a bad player.

Wow.

OP start with if the tables were reversed and you were the person playing poker...What would you do? If you realized you couldn't make a sufficient living playing would you be responsible enough to get a job? If the answer is no then you can't complain. If the answer is yes, well as harsh as it sounds there's your answer.
I play poker part time, but previously full time for a living. I am female. I recently had to go back to work full time in a job that I do not like, to support my extended family and my parents. Did I want to? No, not at all. But **** happens. I'm not going to let my family starve, live on the streets and not provide for them because I was selfish enough to keep playing even when I didn't have the money.

I believe it's a choice. You choose to be responsible. You choose to put others before yourself.

That being said when the time is right I will return to poker because that is ultimately what I want to do. But in the meantime I'm not going to risk my family for my selfish needs or wants.

"He can't/won't get a job". Excuses. Craziness. Laziness.

I'm all about supporting someone's decisions and being there for them but not at the risk of harming my loved ones especially my significant other.

If you love him tell him to get off his ass and get a job and start contributing to the household. Your emotional well-being counts too.

I hope things work out for you OP. I think you're in a terrible position that only you can get out of.

Be strong! Be brave!

This is a trainwreck.

Ill be blunt here, your husband sucks at poker. He has wasted two years (without any other form of income) breaking even at the easiest of stakes. You live in his dads basement ffs, it's time to level with him. He can easily work an 8 hour shift and go play online after work.

I'd like to reply to a few posters saying that not getting a job is an excuse of some sort. OP clearly mentioned unemployment in her country for young people is around 50%...

I'm guessing maybe they're in Spain or Greece. Even though things in the US are messed up they are SO much worse in those places. There are literally NO JOBS.

You can't hire a poker coach when you have literally no money coming in. That's not something a family is gonna put aside a few hundred Euros or whatever for when there's NO money coming in and debt. Free training videos or maybe a subscription to CardRunners? Sure. Hmmmm, should I not eat for the next two weeks or hire a poker coach for a few hours? Yeah, it's like that.

Sure, they could go somewhere else. But moving costs money. Especially if they're up and moving their whole lives to another country.

While I think it's pretty clear the husband needs to stop counting on poker for income at this point, maybe a few posters could expand their worldview and reply based on that and not solely the reality they know and have experienced.

And this is helpful or germane to the OP's question how...

But congrats on making it all about you. Why do I have the feeling if the husband were posting you'd be writing about how "Man, this is why I haven't had a girlfriend in years. Women just don't believe in their men, crazy..."

Yes, but if he were at least looking for a job, there would be a chance he could make money. As it is, he's no good at poker so spending all his time doing that instead of looking for work is not going to make them any money. He's taking advantage of the OP, plain and simple.

"He can't/won't get a normal 8-5 job" was also clearly stated.

That says a lot. Even if the unemployment rate is high.
I live in north Texas, where there are a ton of qualified people, all fighting for the same job. In south Texas (Houston) it's not like that.

Can't and won't clearly states the husband won't get a 8-5 "normal" job and he believes he can't. She never says oh he's been trying for 2 years and it's not working. She just gave excuses as to why she believes it's not happening.

Ty for using germane in a sentence now it is plastered in my mind! I'm just saying one of the reasons why I'm reticent towards girls is because im a losing poker player which is also to say to people who dont have an idea about this kind of behavior im a losing gambler.

It is embarrassing and shows that I am weak as a human being so I don't bother until I get my life straightened out. I'm just saying like i was under the impression that it was a universal thing that girls wouldn't want to be around people like that is all

You're not married to a professional poker player. You are married to a degenerate gambler. If someone can't earn a reasonable living playing poker full time, then I wouldn't consider them a professional poker player. Poker, especially online, is a very difficult game to make a living out of and even many successful pros say they would not recommend anyone try to play poker professionally.

Even good poker players (which your husband may or may not be) have down years, so you need a large bankroll to be able to handle the ups & downs of playing poker for a living. A common misconception is that solid poker play means you will win money, but the reality is, playing solid gives you a chance to make money, but you could also lose over and over.

Not a big Kanye West fan, but he said it best. "Baby, I got a plan, runaway fast as you can"

He may be professional in that he spends all of his time doing it. But, that doesn't make him a winning player. As such, he is a professional losing player which is not exactly a profession. It's best if he gets a job or goes to school and pursue his passion for poker on the side.

The best play here is for him to get a full-time job and play poker part-time. It's the healthiest way to approach this, financially, psychologically and interpersonally. Gambling professionally and having responsibilities to people other than yourself i.e., family, is a major challenge that most cannot succeed in.

In fact, that's probably the best play for a LOT of players who claim "professional poker player" as an occupation.

Honestly, downswings are something that people use to often fool themselves into thinking it's just luck that's against them.

There gets a point where you feel like you can provide enough and you end up never improving.

You need to hold an intervention and initiate him quitting poker. He should be well past 25NL within 6 months if he is constantly improving.

Key in poker is not to be just good, but constantly improve if you want to be successful and seems like he's maxed his potential

Thanks, everyone, for taking a look at this post and contributing with your opinions. After quite a few discussions with my husband, we decided to give it until the end of the year before I make any tough decisions. I'm still uneasy about the situation, and I told him that I've thought about leaving, but at least we have a deadline now.
The employment situation will probably not change for several different reasons which I will not get into. He is in a tough spot as well; of course he is feeling demoralized and that may very well be affecting his game. He got back to NL 25 the day after I posted this and has been ending the days positive, and has made friends with a former PokerStrategy coach who has agreed to take a look at his database to find any leaks. If he can get to NL 50, with the amount of volume he produces, he can use the rake-back to help pay bills, which is why he was aiming for at least that limit.
We'll see how things go with the coach. I'm remaining skeptical, but am agreeing to give him the time to prove himself.

I wish you good luck.